| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... 22:39 - Oct 4 with 15256 views | bosh67 |
After the Watford and Coventry defeats we were all wondering whether he was already out of his depth?
Six matches further along he's unbeaten, almost nullified the goal difference, got us in the top six and 'generally' making very good in match decisions and proving himself to be a speed learner in this division. Of course we are going to lose matches, possibly a few or so in a row but I actually believe that this guy will work out how to deal with defeats again very quickly. Quicker than his predecessors.
Je pense que nous avons une bonne affaire ici! [Post edited 4 Oct 22:39]
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 11:09 - Oct 5 with 3166 views | numptydumpty |
One hundred percent not a BIBS and CONE man, as was initially thought by many.!! |  |
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 11:28 - Oct 5 with 3052 views | numptydumpty |
And yes its apparent that Nourry has been in the background more since Coventry.
I think Christian for the things that he has been involved with has achieved a reasonable job in improving our club, the youth set ups etc.
However the football side is most definitely a job for the football people employed for these seasons and am glad that is the case still.
Nourry committed a bit of an own goal in the fans forum by tying himself up in knots a little but with the recruitment side of things - managers, players and youth prospects, definitely see a lot of work gone into that. He is fine to tell us about the logistical side of the club but very pleased to see that the manager makes all the decisions etc regarding selection and game management and to be fair to Nourry, he did say this at the fans forum about Stephan.
One thing, would say about criticising Les in comparison with Nourry, most of his seasons we have had zero money to spend, because getting the humongous wage bill down allowed no money for transfers.
This particular window, we have had several three and four million signings, which we never had that luxury during Les's tenure. Mainly due to the Eze money finally coming in, but do agree the money we have actually spent, has been excellent, in that we have got these players for very decent prices and sold our club so well, as several of these players were being pursued by multiple other clubs and some a lot higher up the food chain than our good selves.
But the profiles of the players and managers all add up to the team and squad as much improved.
And regarding Stephan again, he does seem to have had an ability especially with the younger players of getting more out of every single one of them.
Let's see where it all goes. Things can change so quickly, but definitely decent all round for many levels within the club... | |
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 11:31 - Oct 5 with 3042 views | Hunterhoop |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 11:09 - Oct 5 by numptydumpty |
One hundred percent not a BIBS and CONE man, as was initially thought by many.!! |
Think you misunderstood how Clive and others were using that phrase. It wasn’t to say that he was only capable of being a bibs and cones guy. It was used to describe the role he was being asked to do, initially. However, since Cov, he’s seized control and we’re doing it his way now. So, now, he’s far more than that. He is arguably indispensable.
And do not, Clive and others (myself included), were very positive about his appointment based on his record in France and those journo interviews. |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 11:37 - Oct 5 with 2986 views | londonscottish |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 11:31 - Oct 5 by Hunterhoop |
Think you misunderstood how Clive and others were using that phrase. It wasn’t to say that he was only capable of being a bibs and cones guy. It was used to describe the role he was being asked to do, initially. However, since Cov, he’s seized control and we’re doing it his way now. So, now, he’s far more than that. He is arguably indispensable.
And do not, Clive and others (myself included), were very positive about his appointment based on his record in France and those journo interviews. |
Yeah he's been doing what his reputation suggested - being adaptable and seemingly good at squad rotation.
Not that I was particularly grateful at the Oxford game. But I really cannot complain now.
And the Stoke and Wrexham games showed what he can do with this squad when it all clicks. |  |
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 11:47 - Oct 5 with 2929 views | Rangersw12 |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 00:22 - Oct 5 by Hunterhoop |
He seized control after the Coventry debacle, we’re doing things “his way”, and we’re seeing something close to his Strasbourg set up…and quite different to our previous game model.
And we’re a lot better for it. Fair play to him. Doing a great job. |
This in a nutshell
I give him massive credit for changing things around although it's still very early in the season .
There will be more ups and downs but he's doing a very good job especially coming in after a popular manager left . |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 11:47 - Oct 5 with 2931 views | NorthantsHoop |
I must admit I was really sceptical about him after the Watford and the Coventry debacle, thinking he might be a bit soft for this league. But I am loving being proved wrong, he is turning out to be a very canny operator and think he may well turn out to be an upgrade on Cifuentes. |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 12:02 - Oct 5 with 2853 views | numptydumpty |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 11:31 - Oct 5 by Hunterhoop |
Think you misunderstood how Clive and others were using that phrase. It wasn’t to say that he was only capable of being a bibs and cones guy. It was used to describe the role he was being asked to do, initially. However, since Cov, he’s seized control and we’re doing it his way now. So, now, he’s far more than that. He is arguably indispensable.
And do not, Clive and others (myself included), were very positive about his appointment based on his record in France and those journo interviews. |
I understand what you are saying but it appears now before that he was simply testing out his own ideas, playing the way we had done previously.
I personally didn't think his tenure started with Nourry calling all the shots. Stephan trying to find his own way, and worked out after Coventry the original way wasn't working well so changed things. But only thought this, from now myself.
I myself anyhow also wondered at that time whether he was a BIBS and CONE man, but Nourry did contradict himself, he said at fans forum, all, football decisions were down to Stephan. Nourrys waffle tied himself up in knots. Something I sometimes get charged with, which hold my hands up too.
I just think with benefit of hindsight that am certain he was in charge of playing style from the off.
Wasn't calling out any posters or even our esteemed leader, as after Coventry was thinking the exact same thing myself. [Post edited 5 Oct 12:03]
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 13:34 - Oct 5 with 2683 views | JamesB1979 |
Not sure how anyone can know that he’s now “seized control” after Coventry. Unless this is a leak from someone within the club. I have always thought from day 1, that Stephan was deciding everything tactics, selection. Talk otherwise was just nonsense. The difference is, he’s adapted and changed things and also has got players back fit. He’s proven in his career that he’s flexible in what he does.
What I would also say, it’s nice having a manager who genuinely seems happy to be here. [Post edited 5 Oct 14:48]
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 15:50 - Oct 5 with 2449 views | dm97 |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 07:50 - Oct 5 by nix |
Or maybe the game 'model' was never as rigid as has been suggested and has been adapted for/by the new manager, first team squad and changing coaching styles recently.
It makes sense to me to have some kind of style of play across the levels so it's easier to slot in to the next level as you move through. The important thing is that:
a) it's not too rigidly imposed
b) it comes in agreement with/driven by the first team coach and his team.
Given that Stephan has adapted his style very quickly this seems a logical conclusion. |
Would add that it’s not as big a driver of first team decision making as we think it is.
Understand what Hunter is getting at as there has clearly been a huge shift post Cov. I just don’t think, when it comes to first team matters, the ‘game model’ is particularly impactful on how JS decides to shape up, make subs etc. His job is to win and improve our players, the u11s can learn about principles.
Nourry’s biggest mistake, beyond the absurd ‘competitive advantage’ contract cloak, was going so hot and heavy on this game model stuff. Entire discussion now exists because he has repeatedly (unnecessarily) focused on it.
Either way, this form, and JS’ general demeanour since Cov, is a welcome return to common sense - for any on the pitch matter the manager knows best, and should be left to do his job (which he is doing very well). |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 16:10 - Oct 5 with 2397 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 15:50 - Oct 5 by dm97 |
Would add that it’s not as big a driver of first team decision making as we think it is.
Understand what Hunter is getting at as there has clearly been a huge shift post Cov. I just don’t think, when it comes to first team matters, the ‘game model’ is particularly impactful on how JS decides to shape up, make subs etc. His job is to win and improve our players, the u11s can learn about principles.
Nourry’s biggest mistake, beyond the absurd ‘competitive advantage’ contract cloak, was going so hot and heavy on this game model stuff. Entire discussion now exists because he has repeatedly (unnecessarily) focused on it.
Either way, this form, and JS’ general demeanour since Cov, is a welcome return to common sense - for any on the pitch matter the manager knows best, and should be left to do his job (which he is doing very well). |
You don't sign Kone and Burrell if your game model is pish ball.
They were signed to play one way, which we are now seeing, coupled with a new coach who likes his team to be direct.
The game model, as you said, is more about principles of play not who gets picked at left back.
What would be good to know is if the DS have become more direct? Anyone been to a DS game lately? | |
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 16:22 - Oct 5 with 2344 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 16:10 - Oct 5 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
You don't sign Kone and Burrell if your game model is pish ball.
They were signed to play one way, which we are now seeing, coupled with a new coach who likes his team to be direct.
The game model, as you said, is more about principles of play not who gets picked at left back.
What would be good to know is if the DS have become more direct? Anyone been to a DS game lately? |
There's a slightly different mindset with the DS and junior teams inasmuch as the U14's will be promoted to U16's &U16's to U18's and so on with the best prospects sent out on loan to the possible detriment of results. |  |
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 17:10 - Oct 5 with 2242 views | NorthantsHoop |
Think he might be an upgrade on Cifuentes, like his style, not afraid to mix it up. I am now thinking once Pokku and Chair are fit we are going to be very hard to beat and taking it to the oppo, especially at Loftus Road. [Post edited 5 Oct 18:48]
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 18:40 - Oct 5 with 2051 views | FDC |
When ever I see "post-Cov" on here I read it as "post-COVID". just so you know. |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 18:59 - Oct 5 with 1966 views | mart_Goblin |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 16:10 - Oct 5 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
You don't sign Kone and Burrell if your game model is pish ball.
They were signed to play one way, which we are now seeing, coupled with a new coach who likes his team to be direct.
The game model, as you said, is more about principles of play not who gets picked at left back.
What would be good to know is if the DS have become more direct? Anyone been to a DS game lately? |
respectfully disagree.
The game model was 1 up front .
We are now effectively playing 2 up front .
They were never signed to play together because it’s not in the methodology manual .
For anyone to entrech themselves into ‘this is all part of the master plan all along’ is incredibly blinkered.
So we’d go a full pre season and 4 or 5 games into the season before even trying to put ‘the master plan’ into action???
I mean i’ve seen people keep digging on this forum but my god…. |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 19:24 - Oct 5 with 1873 views | JamesB1979 |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 18:59 - Oct 5 by mart_Goblin |
respectfully disagree.
The game model was 1 up front .
We are now effectively playing 2 up front .
They were never signed to play together because it’s not in the methodology manual .
For anyone to entrech themselves into ‘this is all part of the master plan all along’ is incredibly blinkered.
So we’d go a full pre season and 4 or 5 games into the season before even trying to put ‘the master plan’ into action???
I mean i’ve seen people keep digging on this forum but my god…. |
Yeah I agree that the plan / model isn’t to be so direct. Also tend to think more than likely it’s 1 up front. But we spent last season saying that Marti was “made” to play a certain way and with a certain formation. Yet he goes to Leicester and has played 4231. The good thing is that if it isn’t working, then Stephan will change it and change it quickly. That shows an adaptable manager and that’s what’s needed for a club like ours in the championship. | | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 19:27 - Oct 5 with 1866 views | daveB |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 22:55 - Oct 4 by ThGrimRanger |
recruitment, recruitment, recruitment (players and managers)
i’m fascinated by posters on LFW that defend LF as DoF to the hilt during his 8 years with a big championship budget being the same ones who criticise Nourry and his small championship budget |
Circumstances were very different under Les, the work he did put the club in a much better position. He lost his way in the last 2 years here but I thought he did pretty well overall
We've had a very good sumemr at last with recruitment and credit to all invovled, long may that continue
Comical to say we have a small budget, we spent over 10million this summer, rarely got near that under Les |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 19:38 - Oct 5 with 1825 views | OakR |
I think he is doing a good job, and pleased about it, I've never been convinced about the CEO being involved in team selections etc.
What happened post Coventry is we had Kone now playing full matches, Saito signed as well, Walsh got injured, Hayden signed also, squad suddenly looked much more different - I think without Kone especcially a lot of this doesn't happen.
We've seen it before with Austin and Warburton - if you get a striker who can finish, or have one that can't really, it makes all the difference no matter your style of play.
Like others I'm pleased he has adapted and credit for that, we look mich more lively going forwards now, again with Burrell leading the press we are a different animal upfront. I've said before I really like that when one goal up we don't sit back and invite the pressure, we still try to go forwards so the opposition still have something to think about, one of my favourite things about him.
So a longwinded way of saying a good new attack and signings aligned to some tactical changes - we needed both, and I don't think one could have happened without the other. | |
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 20:39 - Oct 5 with 1694 views | 1JD |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 19:27 - Oct 5 by daveB |
Circumstances were very different under Les, the work he did put the club in a much better position. He lost his way in the last 2 years here but I thought he did pretty well overall
We've had a very good sumemr at last with recruitment and credit to all invovled, long may that continue
Comical to say we have a small budget, we spent over 10million this summer, rarely got near that under Les |
We spent 13m in one of Les’ first windows. The European trolley dash that we went full circle on last summer under Nourry. Les had plenty of money to spend during his time at QPR, in certain periods, that window just mentioned, and the Eze money. Similar to what Nourry has now.
For me Les did neither a good nor bad job, but an average one. And I think that’s why he’s not got another job, he can’t point to enough successes here on his CV that are of interest to other clubs. And it’s not like he didn’t have enough time.
Edit: agree it’s comical to say we’ve got a small budget. Nourry spent 9m last summer and 10m this summer. [Post edited 5 Oct 20:43]
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| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 20:58 - Oct 5 with 1621 views | JamesB1979 |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 20:39 - Oct 5 by 1JD |
We spent 13m in one of Les’ first windows. The European trolley dash that we went full circle on last summer under Nourry. Les had plenty of money to spend during his time at QPR, in certain periods, that window just mentioned, and the Eze money. Similar to what Nourry has now.
For me Les did neither a good nor bad job, but an average one. And I think that’s why he’s not got another job, he can’t point to enough successes here on his CV that are of interest to other clubs. And it’s not like he didn’t have enough time.
Edit: agree it’s comical to say we’ve got a small budget. Nourry spent 9m last summer and 10m this summer. [Post edited 5 Oct 20:43]
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What’s the net spend over the last 2 summers? Or is that net? | | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 07:34 - Oct 6 with 1285 views | daveB |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 20:39 - Oct 5 by 1JD |
We spent 13m in one of Les’ first windows. The European trolley dash that we went full circle on last summer under Nourry. Les had plenty of money to spend during his time at QPR, in certain periods, that window just mentioned, and the Eze money. Similar to what Nourry has now.
For me Les did neither a good nor bad job, but an average one. And I think that’s why he’s not got another job, he can’t point to enough successes here on his CV that are of interest to other clubs. And it’s not like he didn’t have enough time.
Edit: agree it’s comical to say we’ve got a small budget. Nourry spent 9m last summer and 10m this summer. [Post edited 5 Oct 20:43]
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That summer we spent £13million we did sell players for around 15million so is all relative
Just think the 2 jobs are very different, Les took over a mess and made some changes at the club that really helped us going forward. The recruitment team who made the signings this summer is lead by Andy Belk abnd les did put him in that position
This isn't a knock to Nourry I think he's made some mistakes as wel but overall is doing pretty well | | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 07:44 - Oct 6 with 1247 views | daveB |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 20:58 - Oct 5 by JamesB1979 |
What’s the net spend over the last 2 summers? Or is that net? |
The last 2 summers?
It's all undisclosed fees nowadays so difficult to tell plus fees are paid across several years but best guess we sold Dykes & Armstrong for around 4million and Kelman for 2.7 (although a lot of that is add ons so probably a lot less)
Lets say brought in 6.7million
Signed Madsen (4million) Celar (2.5) Nardi and Carane (both around a million), Poku (900k), Dembele (2.7) Kone (2.7), Burrell (1) Saito (2.8) so around £18.6million
Net spend would be
We also have the Eze money as well of course, not sure what that ended up being 11.9million without the Eze sale | | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 08:16 - Oct 6 with 1164 views | JamesB1979 |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 07:44 - Oct 6 by daveB |
The last 2 summers?
It's all undisclosed fees nowadays so difficult to tell plus fees are paid across several years but best guess we sold Dykes & Armstrong for around 4million and Kelman for 2.7 (although a lot of that is add ons so probably a lot less)
Lets say brought in 6.7million
Signed Madsen (4million) Celar (2.5) Nardi and Carane (both around a million), Poku (900k), Dembele (2.7) Kone (2.7), Burrell (1) Saito (2.8) so around £18.6million
Net spend would be
We also have the Eze money as well of course, not sure what that ended up being 11.9million without the Eze sale |
Ok, thanks. So that’s 12m total over 2 transfer windows. That must put us still in bottom quarter of the league. So about where we sit in the table. | | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 08:29 - Oct 6 with 1102 views | nix |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 07:44 - Oct 6 by daveB |
The last 2 summers?
It's all undisclosed fees nowadays so difficult to tell plus fees are paid across several years but best guess we sold Dykes & Armstrong for around 4million and Kelman for 2.7 (although a lot of that is add ons so probably a lot less)
Lets say brought in 6.7million
Signed Madsen (4million) Celar (2.5) Nardi and Carane (both around a million), Poku (900k), Dembele (2.7) Kone (2.7), Burrell (1) Saito (2.8) so around £18.6million
Net spend would be
We also have the Eze money as well of course, not sure what that ended up being 11.9million without the Eze sale |
Just adding to your post Dave. According to WLS who we usually believe Madsen cost £2 million initially. Some of the discrepancy might be exchange rate - 4 million Euros is more like £3.5 million - and some might be add ons, which could include things like playing 100 matches, scoring 20 goals or being promoted, so won't have accrued yet obviously. |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 08:33 - Oct 6 with 1067 views | daveB |
| Julien Stéphan, I mean, come on... on 08:29 - Oct 6 by nix |
Just adding to your post Dave. According to WLS who we usually believe Madsen cost £2 million initially. Some of the discrepancy might be exchange rate - 4 million Euros is more like £3.5 million - and some might be add ons, which could include things like playing 100 matches, scoring 20 goals or being promoted, so won't have accrued yet obviously. |
Yeah I imagine a lot of the fees we paid would include add ons so it's really hard to know how much we've spent | | | |
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