| the golden generation England debate 17:32 - Oct 10 with 6801 views | themodfather |
so as many suspected the beckham era was riddled with divides, club v country, north v south , doesn't surprise me as many managers are not english, why would fergie want us to do well? or encourage his players at international level?
reports had come up about card games leading to huge debts between players and friction there.
south Africa world cup saw rooney rowing with terry and lampard and gerrard defended them , along the lines of soft southern fairies? as an england fan desperate to see us win a cup before i am gone, this riles me so much .
then again the Dutch implode often , is it that hard to forget egos, club issues for a month ?
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| the golden generation England debate on 19:14 - Oct 10 with 4429 views | NoDiddley |
Bit like the LSA |  | | |
| the golden generation England debate a on 19:59 - Oct 10 with 4344 views | numptydumpty |
Team mates that dont like each other and dont play properly for the shirt.
in the last 10 to 15 years and beyond how many times have our players been disunited. The Mark Hughes and Harry Redknapp squads full of money grabbing stars on the way down, hardly an unusual scenario in football today.
i tend to think the so called England golden generation were very overhyped. [Post edited 10 Oct 20:00]
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| the golden generation England debate on 20:09 - Oct 10 with 4322 views | derbyhoop |
I think the Redknapp era included significant disparities between players' earnings, which led to lack of harmony. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| the golden generation England debate on 20:34 - Oct 10 with 4246 views | numptydumpty |
| the golden generation England debate on 20:09 - Oct 10 by derbyhoop |
I think the Redknapp era included significant disparities between players' earnings, which led to lack of harmony. |
Many reasons why team mates dont get on.
Thats one of them, another is some cant be a**ed and others would practically die for the shirt, add in different backgrounds, different cultures, different beliefs, different personalities etc, no wonder its so tough to unite a team. [Post edited 10 Oct 20:35]
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| the golden generation England debate on 21:28 - Oct 10 with 4182 views | kernowhoop |
Those fallings-out happen. Didn't the Brazil team get a bit grumpy before a World Cup Final with France? | | | |
| the golden generation England debate on 00:03 - Oct 11 with 4048 views | Match82 |
| the golden generation England debate on 20:34 - Oct 10 by numptydumpty |
Many reasons why team mates dont get on.
Thats one of them, another is some cant be a**ed and others would practically die for the shirt, add in different backgrounds, different cultures, different beliefs, different personalities etc, no wonder its so tough to unite a team. [Post edited 10 Oct 20:35]
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I give Southgate more credit than most for that reason alone. Hugely talented squad, yes, but he actually got them doing consistently well, unlike in the past when we have had hugely talented squads and done fck all with it.
I also think that narrative between him being a good and bad manager because he's won nothing changing because a couple of players missed penalties is ridiculous . |  | | |
| the golden generation England debate on 05:24 - Oct 11 with 3944 views | TGRRRSSS |
Nobody will state it but Nobody was more responsible for the division than Ferguon.
He has denied it since including in one of his more recent books but he didn't want his players mixing with others.
I think it can't just be coincidence things started to improve a few years after he retired and players from his team and sphere of influence did.
No surprise a man United player then denied it... Rooney |  | | |
| the golden generation England debate on 06:54 - Oct 11 with 3893 views | PlanetHonneywood |
Tuch seems to be continuing the excellent work Southgate did in creating a team environment. What I do like about Tuch, he seems hell-bent on making selection an honour not a foregone conclusion simply because you play for Real or City. Albeit that I'm a little lost in RLC's selection.
Which the managers in the 'Golden' era didn't do at a time when it was evident, and highly rumoured, that not all was harmonious in squad gatherings. McClaren being the worst of the lot with his 'Stevie G' buddiness.
Thus, I have no sympathy for the managers of that era not calling it out and/or acting upon it. Maybe we wasted a chance at glory. Maybe they were over-hyped. But maybe now lessons have been learned, and your Billy Big-Testicle mindset playing at the big clubs have been sent packing. |  |
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| the golden generation England debate on 11:45 - Oct 11 with 3672 views | kensalriser |
| the golden generation England debate on 05:24 - Oct 11 by TGRRRSSS |
Nobody will state it but Nobody was more responsible for the division than Ferguon.
He has denied it since including in one of his more recent books but he didn't want his players mixing with others.
I think it can't just be coincidence things started to improve a few years after he retired and players from his team and sphere of influence did.
No surprise a man United player then denied it... Rooney |
I reckon Ferguson took great delight in doing whatever he could to nobble England’s progress.
That said, squad disunity is largely a product of poor management. |  |
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| the golden generation England debate on 12:36 - Oct 11 with 3626 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| the golden generation England debate on 05:24 - Oct 11 by TGRRRSSS |
Nobody will state it but Nobody was more responsible for the division than Ferguon.
He has denied it since including in one of his more recent books but he didn't want his players mixing with others.
I think it can't just be coincidence things started to improve a few years after he retired and players from his team and sphere of influence did.
No surprise a man United player then denied it... Rooney |
Spot on: Ferguson (and to a lesser extent Wenger and Mourinho) definitely made it clear that club rules over country and an Us vs Them attitude. Southgate benefited from their eras having largely ended when he took over.
Also players are a lot more connected nowadays through social media so know each other anyhow.
Tuchel seems to be doing as good a job on the unity side as well as having decent tactics and game management. |  | | |
| the golden generation England debate on 19:49 - Oct 11 with 3417 views | themodfather |
southgate got rid of the so called stars , gave fresh caps to new blood and we have flourished.
as said qpr have had their infighting, as did the lsa ( all sorted now) , zamora on a podcast said we were toxic, punch ups were regular.
tuchel made a bold choice to drop Bellingham this week but those stepping up are taking their chance.
too often if bryan robson or becks got injured the press reported, things like how do we play without them? what message does that send to squad? we are a one player team?
big summer for england next year | | | |
| the golden generation England debate on 23:13 - Oct 12 with 3052 views | Beestonranger |
| the golden generation England debate on 11:45 - Oct 11 by kensalriser |
I reckon Ferguson took great delight in doing whatever he could to nobble England’s progress.
That said, squad disunity is largely a product of poor management. |
Not just England. I'm sure Giggs didn't play for Wales half as much as he could have done. | | | |
| the golden generation England debate on 23:58 - Oct 12 with 2984 views | SydneyRs |
While a good team spirit is no guarantee of success, it certainly makes you better than you'd be without it.
Recent stuff has just confirmed what a lot of us already knew, that the squad back then didn't get on. Was also shocked to hear that aside from 90 mins of training they were stuck in their rooms all day. Not exactly good for bonding or mental health. | | | |
| the golden generation England debate on 11:17 - Oct 13 with 2765 views | CamberleyR |
| the golden generation England debate on 23:13 - Oct 12 by Beestonranger |
Not just England. I'm sure Giggs didn't play for Wales half as much as he could have done. |
He didn't play in a friendly for Wales until March 2000. He made his debut in October 1991.
Wales had played 55 games in that period, 18 of which were friendlies. |  |
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| the golden generation England debate on 11:52 - Oct 13 with 2693 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| the golden generation England debate on 05:24 - Oct 11 by TGRRRSSS |
Nobody will state it but Nobody was more responsible for the division than Ferguon.
He has denied it since including in one of his more recent books but he didn't want his players mixing with others.
I think it can't just be coincidence things started to improve a few years after he retired and players from his team and sphere of influence did.
No surprise a man United player then denied it... Rooney |
Was listening to one of those 'brave after the event' podcasts where Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes both said he did.
Paul Scholes as good as said he didn't give a shit once Lampard and Gerrard were around and he couldn't take CM berth. |  | | |
| the golden generation England debate a on 13:53 - Oct 13 with 2531 views | W7Ranger |
| the golden generation England debate a on 19:59 - Oct 10 by numptydumpty |
Team mates that dont like each other and dont play properly for the shirt.
in the last 10 to 15 years and beyond how many times have our players been disunited. The Mark Hughes and Harry Redknapp squads full of money grabbing stars on the way down, hardly an unusual scenario in football today.
i tend to think the so called England golden generation were very overhyped. [Post edited 10 Oct 20:00]
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How many of today's players would get in that golden genearation team though... ?
Seaman
G Neville
JT *spits*
Ferdiand
A Cole
Becks
Gerard
Lampard
Scholes
Rooney
Owen |  | | |
| the golden generation England debate a on 14:03 - Oct 13 with 2500 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| the golden generation England debate a on 13:53 - Oct 13 by W7Ranger |
How many of today's players would get in that golden genearation team though... ?
Seaman
G Neville
JT *spits*
Ferdiand
A Cole
Becks
Gerard
Lampard
Scholes
Rooney
Owen |
Some team that.
Other than Kyle Walker, who else from then until now is getting in that XI?
Some miracle Southgate has pulled all these years. | | | |
| the golden generation England debate on 14:11 - Oct 13 with 2477 views | Juzzie |
I too think they were over-hyped simply because they didn't deliver, regardless of obvious ability, nowhere near as much as Southgate's team did (whether you like him or not, his teams got us further).
Club rivalry caused a division that split the team apart. There was no team cohesion like there has been the last few tournaments.
In Germany in 2006 with the hosts very much in transition, we beat Paraguay 1-0 from a 4th minute OG, two late goals to see off Trinidad & Tobago, then drew 2-2 with Sweden.
1-0 win over Equador in the round of 16 then drew 0-0 with Portugal in the quarters and lost 3-1 on pens with Lampard, Gerrard & Carragher all missing theirs.
I know England, or any team, do not have a divine right for anything but that tournament was a hard watch for a team that could, and should, have delivered so much better.
2010 wasn't much better. The most valued squad in the tournament yet finished 2nd in the Group to USA. We drew our first two against the USA (1-1) and Algeria (0-0) and finally beat the mighty Slovenia 1-0 in the last game.
OK, the round of 16 game against Germany was famous for Lampard's goal not given but Germany were so much better than us. Even if that goal had been allowed and made it 2-2, I really don't think it would have been the springboard to go on and win the game, Germany were that much better and would have just gone up a gear.
They were not golden and do not deserve the moniker.
[Post edited 13 Oct 15:12]
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| the golden generation England debate a on 16:59 - Oct 13 with 2285 views | numptydumpty |
| the golden generation England debate a on 14:03 - Oct 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Some team that.
Other than Kyle Walker, who else from then until now is getting in that XI?
Some miracle Southgate has pulled all these years. |
And yet Southgate is massively maligned
Like Bobby Robson, before him, he will get the adulation his achievements deserve 20 years after the event.
Bobby was absolutely mauled in 1986 and 1990. Close to not progressing from the group stages in both world cups and in 1990, Platts wonder goal in the last minute of extra time, ensured progress from round of 16.
Time changes peoples belief systems, especially if more recent results are worse. [Post edited 13 Oct 17:00]
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| the golden generation England debate a on 17:14 - Oct 13 with 2261 views | PhilmyRs |
| the golden generation England debate a on 14:03 - Oct 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Some team that.
Other than Kyle Walker, who else from then until now is getting in that XI?
Some miracle Southgate has pulled all these years. |
Not sure I agree.
Fantastic individual players, but not a team, not a well balanced side. We talk about the lack of pace at Rangers (until Burrell) but that first 11 (midfield and strikers) isn't mobile or quick. Yes Owen was one of the fastest in his early years but he openly admits post injuries he was in decline and stopped using that part of his game as he was too worried about breaking down. I don't think the 4-4-2 system helped either and we always got 1 or 2 injuries just before a tournament and our squad depth was shown to be lacking with the backups not being anywhere near as good as the options we have now.
The one area where I do agree is the defence, that defence is probably the best we've ever had. | | | |
| the golden generation England debate a on 17:19 - Oct 13 with 2241 views | numptydumpty |
| the golden generation England debate a on 17:14 - Oct 13 by PhilmyRs |
Not sure I agree.
Fantastic individual players, but not a team, not a well balanced side. We talk about the lack of pace at Rangers (until Burrell) but that first 11 (midfield and strikers) isn't mobile or quick. Yes Owen was one of the fastest in his early years but he openly admits post injuries he was in decline and stopped using that part of his game as he was too worried about breaking down. I don't think the 4-4-2 system helped either and we always got 1 or 2 injuries just before a tournament and our squad depth was shown to be lacking with the backups not being anywhere near as good as the options we have now.
The one area where I do agree is the defence, that defence is probably the best we've ever had. |
The best defence we have ever had, when your right back was "Angry Middle Aged Man" Gary Neville... | |
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| the golden generation England debate a on 09:00 - Oct 14 with 1910 views | TheChef |
| the golden generation England debate a on 14:03 - Oct 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Some team that.
Other than Kyle Walker, who else from then until now is getting in that XI?
Some miracle Southgate has pulled all these years. |
That team worked so much better when Owen Hargreaves was in it, shame he was crocked half the time. |  |
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| the golden generation England debate a on 09:57 - Oct 15 with 1512 views | francisbowles |
| the golden generation England debate a on 16:59 - Oct 13 by numptydumpty |
And yet Southgate is massively maligned
Like Bobby Robson, before him, he will get the adulation his achievements deserve 20 years after the event.
Bobby was absolutely mauled in 1986 and 1990. Close to not progressing from the group stages in both world cups and in 1990, Platts wonder goal in the last minute of extra time, ensured progress from round of 16.
Time changes peoples belief systems, especially if more recent results are worse. [Post edited 13 Oct 17:00]
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Didn't the players persuade him to tear up the game model and move to a three at the back with Mark Wright as the 'sweeper'? | | | |
| the golden generation England debate a on 10:18 - Oct 15 with 1472 views | terryb |
| the golden generation England debate a on 14:03 - Oct 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Some team that.
Other than Kyle Walker, who else from then until now is getting in that XI?
Some miracle Southgate has pulled all these years. |
I think you would find that Harry Kane could make the team!
It's taken me years to really appreciate how good he is, but he is the best English goalscorer in my lifetime. Lineker & Shearer probably the next best, ahead of Fowler, Owen & Greaves.
Rooney was a better all round player than any of them & Gasgcoigne the most skillful, but they couldn't finish like Kane. [Post edited 15 Oct 10:26]
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| the golden generation England debate a on 10:26 - Oct 15 with 1433 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| the golden generation England debate a on 10:18 - Oct 15 by terryb |
I think you would find that Harry Kane could make the team!
It's taken me years to really appreciate how good he is, but he is the best English goalscorer in my lifetime. Lineker & Shearer probably the next best, ahead of Fowler, Owen & Greaves.
Rooney was a better all round player than any of them & Gasgcoigne the most skillful, but they couldn't finish like Kane. [Post edited 15 Oct 10:26]
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That’s fair. | | | |
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