| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors 10:13 - Oct 23 with 3687 views | WestbourneR |
After watching Madsen run the game last night with both grit and real class, I'm struggling to think of an Rs player who has gone from such a low point to become our best player.
For me Madsen now looks like a Premiership footballer. He is class. Indispensable.
So it got me to thinking about Celar - who we bombed out after an equally poor season. Did we move too soon? Was there a good player in there?
My feeling is strongly - no.
I actually think Celar has no interest in the putting in the hard yards to make it in England. He looked extremely unhappy and withdrawn from the start.
However I think the key difference is Celar truly was a poor player with one attribute, he could strike a ball and finish. In the gentle Swiss League, once every two games, the ball would bobble his way and he'd smash it in. He has nothing else.
Whereas Madsen is showing he is complete midfielder (not that defensive part was at all obvious 10 games ago) |  |
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| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 10:26 - Oct 23 with 2824 views | GaryBannister86 |
I mean, I think Madsen has improved immeasurably but I fear you are going a trifle overboard here? For me, he's improved form abysmal to good. Not from abysmal to a cross between prime Hoddle / Roy Keane!
Let's hope he keeps improving as quickly, then maybe in a year or so you will be right :-) |  | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 10:30 - Oct 23 with 2776 views | PhilmyRs |
Interesting, having this debate on the Madsen thread as a fair challenge whether we should have shown same faith in Celar. Key differences for me is we got more suitable strikers in over the summer, so less need to show patience with him and despite being mainly rubbish I did see some positive signs with Madsen, who has a skill set others don’t have (i.e. can pass). I didn’t see much with Celar to say he would have been suitable for our style.
The above said, now we’ve moved to more 4-4-2, it does make you wonder whether he’d looked more dangerous playing alongside Kone. |  | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 10:33 - Oct 23 with 2748 views | colinallcars |
It goes to show though, that know-nothings like me can piss & moan about a player ad nauseum, and it means nothing. |  | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 10:36 - Oct 23 with 2721 views | gazza1 |
The club will sell as soon as they can - 100%......never nowhere near Madsen. | | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 10:56 - Oct 23 with 2588 views | JamesB1979 |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 10:26 - Oct 23 by GaryBannister86 |
I mean, I think Madsen has improved immeasurably but I fear you are going a trifle overboard here? For me, he's improved form abysmal to good. Not from abysmal to a cross between prime Hoddle / Roy Keane!
Let's hope he keeps improving as quickly, then maybe in a year or so you will be right :-) |
He’s gone from anonymous to being our best midfielder. That’s a huge turnaround. With Burrell, Mbengue, he’s been our best player. | | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:03 - Oct 23 with 2535 views | JAPRANGERS |
How has he managed to improve so much? |  | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:04 - Oct 23 with 2521 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 10:56 - Oct 23 by JamesB1979 |
He’s gone from anonymous to being our best midfielder. That’s a huge turnaround. With Burrell, Mbengue, he’s been our best player. |
Well I don't disagree with you, but my point is that being our best midfielder does not qualify him just yet as a "Premier League footballer" or the second coming of Glenn Hoddle.
I hope he does become this, don't get me wrong, but having a couple of good games in the Championship doesn't equate for me. | | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:13 - Oct 23 with 2443 views | QPROslo |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:03 - Oct 23 by JAPRANGERS |
How has he managed to improve so much? |
I expect a lot of it is growth in his self-confidence, and good training especially in the defensive aspects of his game this season. He and whoever has worked with him on this deserve huge credit. | | | |
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| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:13 - Oct 23 with 2439 views | Rsole |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 10:30 - Oct 23 by PhilmyRs |
Interesting, having this debate on the Madsen thread as a fair challenge whether we should have shown same faith in Celar. Key differences for me is we got more suitable strikers in over the summer, so less need to show patience with him and despite being mainly rubbish I did see some positive signs with Madsen, who has a skill set others don’t have (i.e. can pass). I didn’t see much with Celar to say he would have been suitable for our style.
The above said, now we’ve moved to more 4-4-2, it does make you wonder whether he’d looked more dangerous playing alongside Kone. |
Celar would have been a better option to sub Kone than Frey…. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:17 - Oct 23 with 2409 views | JAPRANGERS |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:13 - Oct 23 by QPROslo |
I expect a lot of it is growth in his self-confidence, and good training especially in the defensive aspects of his game this season. He and whoever has worked with him on this deserve huge credit. |
Thanks for your reply! | | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:23 - Oct 23 with 2359 views | daveB |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 10:26 - Oct 23 by GaryBannister86 |
I mean, I think Madsen has improved immeasurably but I fear you are going a trifle overboard here? For me, he's improved form abysmal to good. Not from abysmal to a cross between prime Hoddle / Roy Keane!
Let's hope he keeps improving as quickly, then maybe in a year or so you will be right :-) |
He's basically gone from a 1 or 2 out of 10 player to a regular 6 or 7 out of 10 with potential to get better |  | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:26 - Oct 23 with 2316 views | daveB |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:03 - Oct 23 by JAPRANGERS |
How has he managed to improve so much? |
he's playing deeper so coming onto the ball which has helped him, did that at Sunderland and could see signs of a player that day but mostly it's work rate. He's upped his work off the ball and is now winning tacles, anticipating where the danger is. All very basic things but makes a real difference | | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:36 - Oct 23 with 2255 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:03 - Oct 23 by JAPRANGERS |
How has he managed to improve so much? |
The ability was always there, but he looked terrified of the pace and aggression of the championship when he first arrived. Starting to acclimatise.
The thing I like about him is that he looks up and scans with the ball at his feet. He doesn’t rush and is comfortable playing short balls or dinking one over the top of the opposition defence. Great range of passing ability.
The lad has a high ceiling, but he has to produce on a regular basis. Like many, delighted he has made me eat humble pie. Now our best ball playing, even cultured, midfielder. | | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 12:01 - Oct 23 with 2080 views | QPR_John |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:03 - Oct 23 by JAPRANGERS |
How has he managed to improve so much? |
However good a player is this is a team game and I think a big part in Madsen's improvement is the quality of the players around him. | | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 12:15 - Oct 23 with 1983 views | LongRanger |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:04 - Oct 23 by GaryBannister86 |
Well I don't disagree with you, but my point is that being our best midfielder does not qualify him just yet as a "Premier League footballer" or the second coming of Glenn Hoddle.
I hope he does become this, don't get me wrong, but having a couple of good games in the Championship doesn't equate for me. |
I totally agree with you, it's great to see Madsen doing well and on a path to being a big asset, but we have to measure a player over a season at least, not a handful of games. The signs are positive, great news, hope he is player of the season, but a long way to go, anyone remember Stuart Wardley, let's enjoy it but not get carried away. | | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 12:25 - Oct 23 with 1927 views | BrizR |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:03 - Oct 23 by JAPRANGERS |
How has he managed to improve so much? |
Doing this helps a lot:
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| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 12:31 - Oct 23 with 1890 views | simmo |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 12:25 - Oct 23 by BrizR |
Doing this helps a lot:
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Exactly right, a big part of this is him actually putting it in and making the effort. Part of that is familiarity with the pace of the league, the physicality and the schedule, but ability alone doesn't move you from 0 tackles, blocks or interceptions in multiple games to the 10(!) recoveries last night.
Everything is going right at the moment and long may it continue! |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 12:48 - Oct 23 with 1785 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
I think the lesson to be learned by the fans (including me) is that we are rarely going to sign a ready made player, but we'll do well when we sign a player with a piece missing and work on it.
Our job is to provide support and patience I guess. A big ask for fans enduring 11 years in lower table Championship I know. |  | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 12:53 - Oct 23 with 1748 views | WestbourneR |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 10:26 - Oct 23 by GaryBannister86 |
I mean, I think Madsen has improved immeasurably but I fear you are going a trifle overboard here? For me, he's improved form abysmal to good. Not from abysmal to a cross between prime Hoddle / Roy Keane!
Let's hope he keeps improving as quickly, then maybe in a year or so you will be right :-) |
To be fair I never even nearly said he was a Hoddle or Roy Keane, I said he is a Premiership level footballer. Potentially only for a side in bottom 6 of course... | |
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| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 13:24 - Oct 23 with 1609 views | JamesB1979 |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 12:48 - Oct 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I think the lesson to be learned by the fans (including me) is that we are rarely going to sign a ready made player, but we'll do well when we sign a player with a piece missing and work on it.
Our job is to provide support and patience I guess. A big ask for fans enduring 11 years in lower table Championship I know. |
Well said. I think also especially if young and new to England. | | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 13:30 - Oct 23 with 1571 views | FDC |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 10:30 - Oct 23 by PhilmyRs |
Interesting, having this debate on the Madsen thread as a fair challenge whether we should have shown same faith in Celar. Key differences for me is we got more suitable strikers in over the summer, so less need to show patience with him and despite being mainly rubbish I did see some positive signs with Madsen, who has a skill set others don’t have (i.e. can pass). I didn’t see much with Celar to say he would have been suitable for our style.
The above said, now we’ve moved to more 4-4-2, it does make you wonder whether he’d looked more dangerous playing alongside Kone. |
I've wondered about how Celar, and to some extent Kelman, think about our changing to playing with two strikers straight after they left. Obviously would have suited both of their games much more than 451.
We may yet find out with Celar of course |  | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 13:41 - Oct 23 with 1506 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 13:30 - Oct 23 by FDC |
I've wondered about how Celar, and to some extent Kelman, think about our changing to playing with two strikers straight after they left. Obviously would have suited both of their games much more than 451.
We may yet find out with Celar of course |
Don't think Celar is pulling up trees in Germany. Caught a couple of Dusseldorf games and he's not come off the bench in either.
I think a valid point is raised above about him playing up front with a partner as opposed to being the lone ranger up top, which is clearly not his game. |  |
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| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 14:25 - Oct 23 with 1361 views | strikerace |
The legend of Jan Celar. He seems to have settled in to his Bundesliga 2 role nicely, getting 10 minutes mop up at the end of matches for a team battling relegation. I think if he was still here he wouldn't even be dressing, if Kolli didn't get a shirt last night no way Celar does | | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 12:55 - Oct 24 with 879 views | 7374Ranger |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 11:13 - Oct 23 by Rsole |
Celar would have been a better option to sub Kone than Frey…. |
Celar has done nothing on loan at Düsseldorf and is now a bench warmer, so no, he would not be better than Frey.
As for Madsen. he showed last season that he had a talent for passing, but has upped his game and now gets tackles and blocks more frequently in games.
Hopefully he will continue to improve and make it into the Premiership. | | | |
| Celar / Madsen - Sliding Doors on 13:04 - Oct 24 with 830 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
I always liked Madsen (check the receipts) as he's my kind of player and I always thought there was something there, so great to see his improvement this season.
Celar looked like the wrong player for the way we play - he didn't move very much and seemed to be a player who'd hang around the penalty spot waiting for a pass. Burrell is such a different beast and we all see the results. | | | |
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