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Marti on today's defeat on 13:58 - Apr 22 by Stainrod
That is a bold statement coming from someone who, as the guy who runs the biggest QPR fans forum, presumably has contacts at the club, despite the lack of official interviews under this regime.
Given that you have made such a statement - and the way de-stabilising rumours can grow as wildly as late night Trump X tirades - it would be really helpful, please, to know if this is based on anything not in the public domain? Obvs if it is based on private conversations I would not expect you to reveal your source (naturally), but I hope its not unreasonable to ask if this is actually based on a source, whoever that is, or if it is simply your impression. If the latter, can you point me please to the instances that give rise to that impression?
If based on purely "out there" information it seems a very categorical statement given what we (or at least I) know. I wouldn't claim to follow the nuance of every press conference or fans forum as closely as you no doubt do. So it could well be that I am missing some important hints/ tensions, but as just another regular, averagely informed fan I would count it as a major shock in Marti left (unless he were poached which is of course possible).
He has the best rapport with fans of any manager since at least as far back as Warnock IMHO (which is remarkable given results). No doubt there are frustrations about budgets, some transfer decisions etc (is there a club where there aren't such tensions?). But Marti was Nourry's appointment and, broadly speaking, seems in his image in a way that an Ainsworth type manager could never be.
Marti appears to be one of our most intelligent managers since El Tel so presumably understood FFP restrictions, the decision-making process for transfers etc before he arrived? I get the injury issue must be absolutely infuriating for him (as it is for fans) but if this is about the Ben Williams role, better medical facilities, more data science etc etc, surely a practical solution could be found there? I imagine someone as analytical and science-driven as Nourry would want improvements in this area as much as Marti as whatever it would cost would surely be lower than what it costs to keep a bloated squad expected to cope with 8/9 first team players being out for long stretches of the season.
But maybe the above is all very naive and I am missing some major undercurrent.
It's a fair enough post mate, fair to say I wasn't in a particularly good mood last night after sitting through that and was perhaps a bit blunt.
At the moment, if you nailed me to the wall and made me bet red or black he's staying or going then yeh my opinion at the moment is I'd be surprised if he was here next season. And it is just my opinion, I'd be very happy to be wrong.
It hasn't felt to me like the relationship between him and the people running the place has been right since last summer, and if I'm right then in those situations the manager usually goes.
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Marti on today's defeat on 14:13 - Apr 22 with 1912 views
Marti on today's defeat on 13:58 - Apr 22 by Stainrod
That is a bold statement coming from someone who, as the guy who runs the biggest QPR fans forum, presumably has contacts at the club, despite the lack of official interviews under this regime.
Given that you have made such a statement - and the way de-stabilising rumours can grow as wildly as late night Trump X tirades - it would be really helpful, please, to know if this is based on anything not in the public domain? Obvs if it is based on private conversations I would not expect you to reveal your source (naturally), but I hope its not unreasonable to ask if this is actually based on a source, whoever that is, or if it is simply your impression. If the latter, can you point me please to the instances that give rise to that impression?
If based on purely "out there" information it seems a very categorical statement given what we (or at least I) know. I wouldn't claim to follow the nuance of every press conference or fans forum as closely as you no doubt do. So it could well be that I am missing some important hints/ tensions, but as just another regular, averagely informed fan I would count it as a major shock in Marti left (unless he were poached which is of course possible).
He has the best rapport with fans of any manager since at least as far back as Warnock IMHO (which is remarkable given results). No doubt there are frustrations about budgets, some transfer decisions etc (is there a club where there aren't such tensions?). But Marti was Nourry's appointment and, broadly speaking, seems in his image in a way that an Ainsworth type manager could never be.
Marti appears to be one of our most intelligent managers since El Tel so presumably understood FFP restrictions, the decision-making process for transfers etc before he arrived? I get the injury issue must be absolutely infuriating for him (as it is for fans) but if this is about the Ben Williams role, better medical facilities, more data science etc etc, surely a practical solution could be found there? I imagine someone as analytical and science-driven as Nourry would want improvements in this area as much as Marti as whatever it would cost would surely be lower than what it costs to keep a bloated squad expected to cope with 8/9 first team players being out for long stretches of the season.
But maybe the above is all very naive and I am missing some major undercurrent.
Hear Hear. Bit tired of all this dog whistle, Marti leaving, wink wink stuff.
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Marti on today's defeat on 14:19 - Apr 22 with 1879 views
Marti on today's defeat on 14:07 - Apr 22 by Northernr
It's a fair enough post mate, fair to say I wasn't in a particularly good mood last night after sitting through that and was perhaps a bit blunt.
At the moment, if you nailed me to the wall and made me bet red or black he's staying or going then yeh my opinion at the moment is I'd be surprised if he was here next season. And it is just my opinion, I'd be very happy to be wrong.
It hasn't felt to me like the relationship between him and the people running the place has been right since last summer, and if I'm right then in those situations the manager usually goes.
This.
And there are two widely admired Championship managers for their work at messy, complicated, budget-restricted clubs over the last two seasons; Danny Rohl and Marti Cifuentes.
Meanwhile, these well-funded, ambitious, in some cases underachieving but generally well-run Championship clubs will be looking for new managers this summer: West Brom, Southampton, Norwich, Swansea, probably Leicester, possibly Middlesbrough.
Rohl and Cifuentes will have lots of suitors this summer, and that's just the Championship. I'd be amazed if Marti doesn't look back on "the most difficult season of my career for lots of reasons" and not consider the grass could be much greener at this point in his career.
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Marti on today's defeat on 14:20 - Apr 22 with 1861 views
Marti on today's defeat on 14:07 - Apr 22 by Northernr
It's a fair enough post mate, fair to say I wasn't in a particularly good mood last night after sitting through that and was perhaps a bit blunt.
At the moment, if you nailed me to the wall and made me bet red or black he's staying or going then yeh my opinion at the moment is I'd be surprised if he was here next season. And it is just my opinion, I'd be very happy to be wrong.
It hasn't felt to me like the relationship between him and the people running the place has been right since last summer, and if I'm right then in those situations the manager usually goes.
OK thanks for clarification mate. Yes not sure any of us were in the finest mood after that display.
If Marti gets a better offer then fair enough.
But think it would be a massive call for Nourry to sack Marti. Nourry doesn't seem very sure-footed about PR, but he is no idiot and he'll know how popular Marti is with fans, and also that he (Christian) hasn't achieved enough yet to make his own position 100% secure. Unless there has been some catastrophic bust up behind the scenes (and I guess it is a bit like the marriages of friends: often fairly grim private mysteries that are hard to read from the outside) I think tactically it would be a terrible move by Nourry.
The next managerial failure would all be on him. Plus I just think between Nourry and Marti, a lot of institutional knowledge (apologies for the horrendous management-speak phrase) has been built up. Think it would be a major self-inflicted wound to lose a lot of that and start the old QPR merry-go-round again.
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Marti on today's defeat on 14:24 - Apr 22 with 1820 views
Marti on today's defeat on 14:20 - Apr 22 by Stainrod
OK thanks for clarification mate. Yes not sure any of us were in the finest mood after that display.
If Marti gets a better offer then fair enough.
But think it would be a massive call for Nourry to sack Marti. Nourry doesn't seem very sure-footed about PR, but he is no idiot and he'll know how popular Marti is with fans, and also that he (Christian) hasn't achieved enough yet to make his own position 100% secure. Unless there has been some catastrophic bust up behind the scenes (and I guess it is a bit like the marriages of friends: often fairly grim private mysteries that are hard to read from the outside) I think tactically it would be a terrible move by Nourry.
The next managerial failure would all be on him. Plus I just think between Nourry and Marti, a lot of institutional knowledge (apologies for the horrendous management-speak phrase) has been built up. Think it would be a major self-inflicted wound to lose a lot of that and start the old QPR merry-go-round again.
Well, if it were to happen, it's fair to say next season would have to go pretty well.
If it did, then CN et al would look like geniuses who took a difficult decision when the easy thing to do would have been to stick and have been rewarded for their judgement.
If it didn't, then I think the crowd would turn on them quite quickly - you got rid of a manager that was doing alright, parring the course at worst, and we all liked, for this!!? etc etc.
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Marti on today's defeat on 14:34 - Apr 22 with 1781 views
Marti on today's defeat on 14:20 - Apr 22 by Stainrod
OK thanks for clarification mate. Yes not sure any of us were in the finest mood after that display.
If Marti gets a better offer then fair enough.
But think it would be a massive call for Nourry to sack Marti. Nourry doesn't seem very sure-footed about PR, but he is no idiot and he'll know how popular Marti is with fans, and also that he (Christian) hasn't achieved enough yet to make his own position 100% secure. Unless there has been some catastrophic bust up behind the scenes (and I guess it is a bit like the marriages of friends: often fairly grim private mysteries that are hard to read from the outside) I think tactically it would be a terrible move by Nourry.
The next managerial failure would all be on him. Plus I just think between Nourry and Marti, a lot of institutional knowledge (apologies for the horrendous management-speak phrase) has been built up. Think it would be a major self-inflicted wound to lose a lot of that and start the old QPR merry-go-round again.
I can't see them sacking Marti but wouldn't be shocked if he gets an offer from another club or the club and Marti part ways by mutual consent at the end of the season
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Marti on today's defeat on 14:35 - Apr 22 with 1771 views
Like it or not, QPR is now a club run by people that don’t want to share what they deem to be sensitive information with fans.
I don’t think QPR is unique in this respect (for once) but that creates a vacuum, which nature abhors and naturally fills with material.
I believe this forum provides said material in the form of personal opinions, occasionally mixed in with some facts, when they become available from the club which is usually after the event.
In relation to Marti, we can add some speculation to opinions. You can argue that some of the speculation is more logical than the rest but it’s still speculation.
And we’ll probably never know the facts of this situation because whatever happens, there will be a bunch of lawyers that have agreed NDAs and confidentiality clauses in Marti’s ‘enhanced’ contract. Again, what type of enhancements were agreed last year, we don’t/won’t know either.
What is clear is that there are things that can be said and things that can’t be said. I would expect that Marti probably has to walk a fine line in his interviews and perhaps we should just see it as that - it’s mostly the company line, especially if you plan to keep your job.
If another job offer materialises soon, I would expect that Marti’s comments may become a little more pointed and he may become more relaxed too but he’s never going to breach his contract terms under threat of legal action and he’d be a bit silly to walk away without another job in the bag.
Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
Marti on today's defeat on 14:24 - Apr 22 by Northernr
Well, if it were to happen, it's fair to say next season would have to go pretty well.
If it did, then CN et al would look like geniuses who took a difficult decision when the easy thing to do would have been to stick and have been rewarded for their judgement.
If it didn't, then I think the crowd would turn on them quite quickly - you got rid of a manager that was doing alright, parring the course at worst, and we all liked, for this!!? etc etc.
I just think on the balance of probabilities a new manager would do either the same or worse, at least initially (and in football, "initially" is the only time you sometimes get).
If you take this season:
1) A different manager would have had the same injuries more or less (I think Marti over-played Cook, albeit with limited alternatives)
2) A different manager would have had a similar squad, with the same questionable summer signings, seeing as transfers are decided by committee
3) A different manager couldn't have done much more to blood youth players (bar Kolli early season, but that might have been more due to contractual reasons above his pay-grade).
Possibly Marti could be criticised for not solving our perennial problem of being unable to progress the ball through the midfield, with the repetitive and reductive passing backwards, but maybe that's more about the limitations of the players? An open question perhaps.
With the possible exception of Danny Rohl am struggling to think of another manager we have come across this season where I've come away thinking "if only we had him, he would transform our team." And even then there is very little in it. Ironically Swansea were perhaps such a team who played as Marti would like us to play, but their manager has yet to prove himself over a longer period.
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Marti on today's defeat on 15:56 - Apr 22 with 1539 views
Let's ignore all the noise and apply Occam's razor:
Marti can be sacked, he can be poached or he can leave by mutual consent.
(1) Looks unlikely to me given his popularity and the financial disincentive.
(2) More likely if he wants to leave and/or gets an attractive offer. If there's a comp clause then it's analogous to a player getting an offer; he'll go if the bidder meets the comp fee.
(3) Very unlikely unless the Nourry/Cifuentes relationship really has broken down and each thinks they have a better alternative.
So we're really at (2). My feeling is we rate Marti much higher than others due to confirmation bias and exceptionalism. There are other Champ managers that look more attractive based on the league table (ie observable facts rather than vibes): Liam Manning and Alex Neil for two, plus Rohl, of course. And there's be plenty of candidates from other leagues.
Summary: balance of probablity is that he'll stay another season.
Marti on today's defeat on 15:22 - Apr 22 by Stainrod
I just think on the balance of probabilities a new manager would do either the same or worse, at least initially (and in football, "initially" is the only time you sometimes get).
If you take this season:
1) A different manager would have had the same injuries more or less (I think Marti over-played Cook, albeit with limited alternatives)
2) A different manager would have had a similar squad, with the same questionable summer signings, seeing as transfers are decided by committee
3) A different manager couldn't have done much more to blood youth players (bar Kolli early season, but that might have been more due to contractual reasons above his pay-grade).
Possibly Marti could be criticised for not solving our perennial problem of being unable to progress the ball through the midfield, with the repetitive and reductive passing backwards, but maybe that's more about the limitations of the players? An open question perhaps.
With the possible exception of Danny Rohl am struggling to think of another manager we have come across this season where I've come away thinking "if only we had him, he would transform our team." And even then there is very little in it. Ironically Swansea were perhaps such a team who played as Marti would like us to play, but their manager has yet to prove himself over a longer period.
Well put Stainrod, especially the note about the timescale in which managers are expected to justify their appointment. I get the feeling that the instant any replacement manager is felt to be underperforming the crowd will be singing about paella and Estrella again.
For the record, I can't see Marti going without another club actively pursuing him. Why walk out with nothing to go to? The longer he's out of the game, the fewer his options (just ask Curbishley) and financially, it doesn't make sense.
I don't want him to go because, like others, I think he's been the best post-Warburton appointment and has changed the feeling around the place. Admittedly, he gets stuff wrong but I like what he gets right.
'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'
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Marti on today's defeat on 16:02 - Apr 22 with 1481 views
Let’s hope he has a big buy out clause if he does end up being poached…if he does leave will be a big job in terms of getting a squad for next season for any new manager as others have said no obvious replacements spring to mind…here’s hoping Marti stays.
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Marti on today's defeat on 16:06 - Apr 22 with 1458 views
Marti on today's defeat on 14:24 - Apr 22 by Northernr
Well, if it were to happen, it's fair to say next season would have to go pretty well.
If it did, then CN et al would look like geniuses who took a difficult decision when the easy thing to do would have been to stick and have been rewarded for their judgement.
If it didn't, then I think the crowd would turn on them quite quickly - you got rid of a manager that was doing alright, parring the course at worst, and we all liked, for this!!? etc etc.
I think part of the debate here (and my own quandary/curiousity) is about conflating 3 scenarios into 1: A) CN/board sacks MC B) MC walks (either of these could be clouded with a BS mutual consent line, see Wazza at Plymouth) C) MC gets poached by another club
I don’t think C is really on the board or Nourry (and for what it’s worth I think it’s by far the most likely). He’d be mad not to take a parachute job or a Boro/Sunderland/Norwich or a richer foreign club in La Liga etc, and they’d pay his comp.
A or B though. That’s a death wish for the board. The anti Ruben/Christian memes will be out quicker than the next guy’s hair can turn grey.
Edit: Kensal wrote the exact point above, didn’t read the question etc etc.
[Post edited 22 Apr 16:22]
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Marti on today's defeat on 16:15 - Apr 22 with 1412 views
I think unless there's a massive difference of opinion between Marti and Nourry around something like Ben Williams or the transfer plans at this end of season meeting, or a club (Norwich maybe?) come in for Marti then he'll be staying put for the time being.
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Marti on today's defeat on 16:18 - Apr 22 with 1392 views
I like Marti - mostly for what he did last year. But he gets a too easy ride in post-match interviews. I'd have liked someone to ask him about the folly of playing Madsen and Anderson in midfield - when we've seen that combination of sloth-like pace and muscle fail several times before. And why start Madsen out wide when he'd improved massively in the middle in the last couple of games (and set up our goal in this game with a superb ball when moved back into the middle)? Also, why wait until 5 minutes into the second half to make changes and not do it at half time after such a wretched first 45 minutes? Still can't get my head around that. He never gets pressed by a reporter with any gumption and gets away with too many platitudes
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Marti on today's defeat on 16:19 - Apr 22 with 1380 views
Marti on today's defeat on 15:58 - Apr 22 by Dorse
Well put Stainrod, especially the note about the timescale in which managers are expected to justify their appointment. I get the feeling that the instant any replacement manager is felt to be underperforming the crowd will be singing about paella and Estrella again.
For the record, I can't see Marti going without another club actively pursuing him. Why walk out with nothing to go to? The longer he's out of the game, the fewer his options (just ask Curbishley) and financially, it doesn't make sense.
I don't want him to go because, like others, I think he's been the best post-Warburton appointment and has changed the feeling around the place. Admittedly, he gets stuff wrong but I like what he gets right.
I almost think sometimes he's been the best post-Venables appointment - with due respect to Messrs Francis, Holloway, Warnock and Warburton.
Exceptional (him and Xavi) , both this season and last, given the financial constraints, squad stability post-Ainsworth and incessant injuries. Would love it if they would stay here, at very least another season.
[Post edited 22 Apr 16:20]
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Marti on today's defeat on 16:36 - Apr 22 with 1341 views
It will be a poisoned chalice for whoever has to follow him, popular with fans and players alike you can all to easily see a situation where the next guy loses both pretty quickly unless they hit the ground running and the club sinks like a stone
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Marti on today's defeat on 16:55 - Apr 22 with 1293 views
Marti on today's defeat on 15:56 - Apr 22 by kensalriser
Let's ignore all the noise and apply Occam's razor:
Marti can be sacked, he can be poached or he can leave by mutual consent.
(1) Looks unlikely to me given his popularity and the financial disincentive.
(2) More likely if he wants to leave and/or gets an attractive offer. If there's a comp clause then it's analogous to a player getting an offer; he'll go if the bidder meets the comp fee.
(3) Very unlikely unless the Nourry/Cifuentes relationship really has broken down and each thinks they have a better alternative.
So we're really at (2). My feeling is we rate Marti much higher than others due to confirmation bias and exceptionalism. There are other Champ managers that look more attractive based on the league table (ie observable facts rather than vibes): Liam Manning and Alex Neil for two, plus Rohl, of course. And there's be plenty of candidates from other leagues.
Summary: balance of probablity is that he'll stay another season.
"Marti can be sacked, he can be poached or he can leave by mutual consent."
Just for the record I'd like to add that he could be abducted by aliens as well. Just saying.
If there was an undercurrent I'm not sure that Marti and Xavi would have signed a long term contract. That said, who on earth knows what is really going on. For some reason that I have no evidence or real idea about, I think the only club that may turn Marti and Xavi would be the Southampton job. I have no reasoning as to why. Just a thought.
Marti on today's defeat on 14:07 - Apr 22 by Northernr
It's a fair enough post mate, fair to say I wasn't in a particularly good mood last night after sitting through that and was perhaps a bit blunt.
At the moment, if you nailed me to the wall and made me bet red or black he's staying or going then yeh my opinion at the moment is I'd be surprised if he was here next season. And it is just my opinion, I'd be very happy to be wrong.
It hasn't felt to me like the relationship between him and the people running the place has been right since last summer, and if I'm right then in those situations the manager usually goes.
I would +1 to this and say simply I would be surprised if he is still around next season, but obviously it’s impossible to say 100% one way or another as I don’t think either MC, CN or RG knows that right now.
To borrow Brian’s important I think, I think it’s ultimately just a clash of cultures and personalities that have caused friction between him and CN. He is an extremely ambitious guy who prior to joining QPR has never turned down a chance to publicise himself and speak about his beliefs and philosophy and at QPR he has a boss who is fastidious (some would say paranoid) about comms. And again as a supremely ambitious guy, with a very active agent i don’t believe that QPR will ever be more than a stepping stone for him, and his boss has said himself he puts great value in loyalty.
Finally, we go into the summer needing much the same as last summer - at least one solid RB, LB, CB, CM and CF and for an ambitious manager, what would success look like next season having bedded those in - being safe a few weeks earlier than this season? His career to date has been 1/2 seasons everywhere and move on. I don’t see QPR as the club he finally settles down at for a 5 year project when I believe that his relationship with the decision makers isn’t exactly solid.
As Norf says, id love to be wrong as I think he has done a pretty damn good job here in the circumstances, but if he takes a modest payout to shake hands amicably and part, I sincerely hope CN and the data guys get someone even better in.
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Marti on today's defeat on 18:39 - Apr 22 with 1073 views
Marti on today's defeat on 16:18 - Apr 22 by Brighton_R
I like Marti - mostly for what he did last year. But he gets a too easy ride in post-match interviews. I'd have liked someone to ask him about the folly of playing Madsen and Anderson in midfield - when we've seen that combination of sloth-like pace and muscle fail several times before. And why start Madsen out wide when he'd improved massively in the middle in the last couple of games (and set up our goal in this game with a superb ball when moved back into the middle)? Also, why wait until 5 minutes into the second half to make changes and not do it at half time after such a wretched first 45 minutes? Still can't get my head around that. He never gets pressed by a reporter with any gumption and gets away with too many platitudes
I was quite bemused by waiting 5 minutes into the 2nd half to make changes that should have been made at half time. Tactically thought he got it wrong with not starting Frey and shoving Fox into defence and Edwards in midfield when Varane could not start.
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Marti on today's defeat on 18:57 - Apr 22 with 1008 views
I'm sure in one of the post-match interviews he said that he would have liked to have started Kolli and Frey but as they are both coming back from injury, it was too risky.
Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man
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Marti on today's defeat on 19:49 - Apr 22 with 865 views
Marti on today's defeat on 16:15 - Apr 22 by Jimboqpr
I think unless there's a massive difference of opinion between Marti and Nourry around something like Ben Williams or the transfer plans at this end of season meeting, or a club (Norwich maybe?) come in for Marti then he'll be staying put for the time being.
Southampton is the club to watch. Rumours amongst Saints fans is that Rohl is the preferred choice (lots of things on the click bait sites as well), but Marti is 2nd.
Not sure Saint's, Norwich, WBA are exactly stable or would give him time, but money talks. Imagine those fans dealing with a six game losing run, we just love him more !
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Marti on today's defeat on 19:50 - Apr 22 with 863 views
Southampton is the club to watch. Rumours amongst Saints fans is that Rohl is the preferred choice (lots of things on the click bait sites as well), but Marti is 2nd.
Not sure Saint's, Norwich, WBA are exactly stable or would give him time, but money talks. Imagine those fans dealing with a six game losing run, we just love him more !
Thought Rohl to Southampton has been a done deal for months.
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Marti on today's defeat on 19:59 - Apr 22 with 840 views
Marti on today's defeat on 14:07 - Apr 22 by Northernr
It's a fair enough post mate, fair to say I wasn't in a particularly good mood last night after sitting through that and was perhaps a bit blunt.
At the moment, if you nailed me to the wall and made me bet red or black he's staying or going then yeh my opinion at the moment is I'd be surprised if he was here next season. And it is just my opinion, I'd be very happy to be wrong.
It hasn't felt to me like the relationship between him and the people running the place has been right since last summer, and if I'm right then in those situations the manager usually goes.
Marti must have been happy enough on 30th September when he signed a new contract, although I'd be the first to admit that 7 months is a long time in professional football.
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