| Election of new Trust main board director 20:31 - May 20 with 26129 views | judd |
Having been forwarded the Trust email, just wondering if any other members have not received it directly?
I'm quite taken aback at some of the claims within it and also the foregone conclusion element too.
Personally think a Trust EGM needs to be called in order for members to direct the Trust board.
|  |
| |  |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 19:24 - May 28 with 4303 views | D_Alien |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 19:16 - May 28 by 49thseason |
This has bèen a interesting discussion delving into the purpose of the trust and making comparisons with other trusts, but.. we are now in a very different place as a club with benevolent owners who, whilst not committing stupid money have a plan to finance the football aspect by creating sustainable income stream and similtaneously developing the Community Trust into a local powerhouse for civic improvement. They are enormously dominant owners in terms of shareholdings and the former large Trust shareholding is now vastly reduced, this is a whole new reality for supporters at large and the Supporters Trust.
I think the Trust has to now find a new raison d'etre, I could see it being a third element in the mix between the Community Trust and the Football club, perhaps with a funding and manpower remit putting money into things like helping with travel costs for promising youngsters, and having an active register of skills that might be used to develop new aspects of supporter interactions with the club, I am thinking of things like workplace evangelists, particular skillsets like IT or AI or organising events that the club only has to provide space for, perhaps a regular Sunday car boot or farmers market or running an Ebay shop.
The days of being a voice in the Boardroom is probably over with the Ogdens in charge and a far more professional team running things, but there will be loads of things that will require a small financial contribution or an extrs pair of hands. Maybe thats where the focus needs to be going forwards. |
That's a fair viewpoint
Don't you think it'd be a good idea to hold a meeting (doesn't have to be an EGM) to discuss these ideas? That's what this thread is about - not just the Trust board role
If you want to put your ideas forward in an open forum, put your name down in the EGM thread. The more support that's visible there, the more likely the Trust are to call a meeting in which these ideas can be aired |  |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 23:33 - May 28 with 4069 views | Sandyman |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 19:16 - May 28 by 49thseason |
This has bèen a interesting discussion delving into the purpose of the trust and making comparisons with other trusts, but.. we are now in a very different place as a club with benevolent owners who, whilst not committing stupid money have a plan to finance the football aspect by creating sustainable income stream and similtaneously developing the Community Trust into a local powerhouse for civic improvement. They are enormously dominant owners in terms of shareholdings and the former large Trust shareholding is now vastly reduced, this is a whole new reality for supporters at large and the Supporters Trust.
I think the Trust has to now find a new raison d'etre, I could see it being a third element in the mix between the Community Trust and the Football club, perhaps with a funding and manpower remit putting money into things like helping with travel costs for promising youngsters, and having an active register of skills that might be used to develop new aspects of supporter interactions with the club, I am thinking of things like workplace evangelists, particular skillsets like IT or AI or organising events that the club only has to provide space for, perhaps a regular Sunday car boot or farmers market or running an Ebay shop.
The days of being a voice in the Boardroom is probably over with the Ogdens in charge and a far more professional team running things, but there will be loads of things that will require a small financial contribution or an extrs pair of hands. Maybe thats where the focus needs to be going forwards. |
The Dale Trust is more than likely going to be the owner of the "Golden Share" when all the legals go through. Therefore, it is very important that Dale Trust is a viable organisation aside of other things going on that it can no doubt contribute towards. IMHO a connection in the boardroom of excellent owners will do no harm.
Remember, we had genuine, trustworthy custodians running the club for decades. In its early days, Dale Trust had no interest in a place on the board as members knew there were good people running the club. Roger (to name but one) ended all that. Never again. We have genuine custodians in charge again, but must ALWAYS remain vigilant in the light of past experience. Ownership of the Golden Share is our insurance. Dale Trust has to continue for that reason alone. |  | | |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 23:48 - May 28 with 4045 views | D_Alien |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 23:33 - May 28 by Sandyman |
The Dale Trust is more than likely going to be the owner of the "Golden Share" when all the legals go through. Therefore, it is very important that Dale Trust is a viable organisation aside of other things going on that it can no doubt contribute towards. IMHO a connection in the boardroom of excellent owners will do no harm.
Remember, we had genuine, trustworthy custodians running the club for decades. In its early days, Dale Trust had no interest in a place on the board as members knew there were good people running the club. Roger (to name but one) ended all that. Never again. We have genuine custodians in charge again, but must ALWAYS remain vigilant in the light of past experience. Ownership of the Golden Share is our insurance. Dale Trust has to continue for that reason alone. |
Excellent post
It's just my take on things, but i'd say the Trust board are currently doing everything they can not to do what they see as "rocking the boat" - hence the binary vote, hence no response to clearly expressed views among the membership that the details of the Trust board rep matters
This, imo, is to massively underestimate the Ogdens. Did they get where they are in business by being retiring wallflowers, shrinking at the sight of any independent views? Like hell they did. It's more likely they'd welcome a Trust that has an independent streak
We're Rochdale lads and lasses, after all - it's in our DNA, just as it's in Sir Peter Ogden's DNA. He, and his son Cameron, would recognise an intelligent proposal to change how the Trust interacts with the Dale board. After all, that's why they've set up CAB - to provide independent views from the stands
What we seem to be seeing from the Trust is craven supplication, and that also applies to many Trust members and other fans too. Stop being scared of your own shadow! If you're going to prove yourselves worthy of holding the Golden Share on behalf of us all, get in touch with the membership and arrange the meeting, before it's brought to you [Post edited 29 May 0:04]
| |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 00:20 - May 29 with 4004 views | wozzrafc |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 23:48 - May 28 by D_Alien |
Excellent post
It's just my take on things, but i'd say the Trust board are currently doing everything they can not to do what they see as "rocking the boat" - hence the binary vote, hence no response to clearly expressed views among the membership that the details of the Trust board rep matters
This, imo, is to massively underestimate the Ogdens. Did they get where they are in business by being retiring wallflowers, shrinking at the sight of any independent views? Like hell they did. It's more likely they'd welcome a Trust that has an independent streak
We're Rochdale lads and lasses, after all - it's in our DNA, just as it's in Sir Peter Ogden's DNA. He, and his son Cameron, would recognise an intelligent proposal to change how the Trust interacts with the Dale board. After all, that's why they've set up CAB - to provide independent views from the stands
What we seem to be seeing from the Trust is craven supplication, and that also applies to many Trust members and other fans too. Stop being scared of your own shadow! If you're going to prove yourselves worthy of holding the Golden Share on behalf of us all, get in touch with the membership and arrange the meeting, before it's brought to you [Post edited 29 May 0:04]
|
The CAB model could very well be a regulatory requirement very soon and trusts up and down the country will be looking how the address this.
We should be thankful we have a board with the foresight to implement it, and with the trust give two spaces it should be embraced. It gives vehicle to formally engage with the board, without relying on them playing lip service, something previous boards in recent years were sometimes guilty.
It also releases the trust director from the added complication of confidentiality. They can take their place in the boardroom to help knowing that scrutiny and due diligence is being done by others. If the trust director role is being offered by the Ogdens should the trust not ask what they want they would want, in order to get the most out of it? The best of both worlds, scrutiny, influence and engagement, as well as long term security with the golden share.
And it answer to sandymans point of not letting our guard down, the trust director being at the table can observe, and ensure the CAB are getting the correct picture.
That’s even more of an incentive for members to engage with the trust and vice versa. [Post edited 29 May 0:30]
|  | | |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 22:58 - Jul 18 with 2976 views | Sandyman |
According to the Dale Trust e mail received this evening, "We have participated at the Club board level by providing a Trust Board Director, which has been invaluable. As the holder of the “Golden Share,” we at the Trust view this position as vital for the future and it will continue. Although we currently have benign ownership, who knows what may happen when the Ogden partnership ends? For members to be able to sanction any changes affecting aspects of our historical heritage is seen as vital by the Trust."
It appears, if true, Dale Trust own the "Golden Share" (if so) in a move that has not been publicised by RAFC or Dale Trust anywhere else? Please correct me if it has.
There is a Dale Trust members meeting before tomorrow's game at 11 AM in Dale Bar. It isn't publicised in tonight's e mail. As in previous Trust correspondence. Hmmmm.... | | | |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 00:51 - Jul 19 with 2897 views | D_Alien |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 22:58 - Jul 18 by Sandyman |
According to the Dale Trust e mail received this evening, "We have participated at the Club board level by providing a Trust Board Director, which has been invaluable. As the holder of the “Golden Share,” we at the Trust view this position as vital for the future and it will continue. Although we currently have benign ownership, who knows what may happen when the Ogden partnership ends? For members to be able to sanction any changes affecting aspects of our historical heritage is seen as vital by the Trust."
It appears, if true, Dale Trust own the "Golden Share" (if so) in a move that has not been publicised by RAFC or Dale Trust anywhere else? Please correct me if it has.
There is a Dale Trust members meeting before tomorrow's game at 11 AM in Dale Bar. It isn't publicised in tonight's e mail. As in previous Trust correspondence. Hmmmm.... |
"we at the Trust"
The Dale Trust is the membership, not the Trust board, which exists on behalf of Trust members | |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 08:47 - Jul 21 with 2436 views | D_Alien |
Brief update following the meeting on Saturday
Points were made, including many in this thread and a way forward was discussed
A report on the meeting (minuted) is awaited from the Trust, with intended actions
Thanks to those who put their names forward to enable the meeting to take place. Informed democracy in action [Post edited 21 Jul 9:41]
| |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 12:37 - Jul 21 with 2218 views | tony_roch975 |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 08:47 - Jul 21 by D_Alien |
Brief update following the meeting on Saturday
Points were made, including many in this thread and a way forward was discussed
A report on the meeting (minuted) is awaited from the Trust, with intended actions
Thanks to those who put their names forward to enable the meeting to take place. Informed democracy in action [Post edited 21 Jul 9:41]
|
Thanks to you too for the co-ordination on here. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Election of new Trust main board director on 13:00 - Jul 21 with 2182 views | D_Alien |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 12:37 - Jul 21 by tony_roch975 |
Thanks to you too for the co-ordination on here. |
Thanks, a joint effort with others, notably wozzrafc | |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 11:42 - Jul 22 with 1985 views | TalkingSutty |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 08:47 - Jul 21 by D_Alien |
Brief update following the meeting on Saturday
Points were made, including many in this thread and a way forward was discussed
A report on the meeting (minuted) is awaited from the Trust, with intended actions
Thanks to those who put their names forward to enable the meeting to take place. Informed democracy in action [Post edited 21 Jul 9:41]
|
Thanks for that, it was a interesting meeting to say the least. The position of Trust Director carrys a lot of responsibiilty, not only is that individual representing the members but he's also answerable to them and the Ogden family/ Directors. That person is also entering a environment were trust and confidentiality is paramount, the Ogden family will expect that. Sensitive documents, financial reports, personal details which are all subject to data protection law all need protecting. The job spec for the new Trust Director will exclude most of the fan base from applying but the most important criteria must be is that person trustworthy and a fit and proper person to hold that position, i didnt see that mentioned in the job spec and it trumps everything else doesnt it? If its the Trust who are taking the lead on putting the right person in place then i'm assuming they will also be doing the due dilligence and background checks on each individual. Importantly the Club will have to do that also. The Ogden family will expect that and also transparency during the voting process. [Post edited 22 Jul 12:36]
|  | | |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 12:49 - Jul 22 with 1872 views | 100notout |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 08:47 - Jul 21 by D_Alien |
Brief update following the meeting on Saturday
Points were made, including many in this thread and a way forward was discussed
A report on the meeting (minuted) is awaited from the Trust, with intended actions
Thanks to those who put their names forward to enable the meeting to take place. Informed democracy in action [Post edited 21 Jul 9:41]
|
Was it established IF a trust director is necessary? | |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 13:09 - Jul 22 with 1831 views | wozzrafc |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 12:49 - Jul 22 by 100notout |
Was it established IF a trust director is necessary? |
Brief summary there were discussions around the role of a trust director and why it was needed.
It was felt the vote for a director should be upheld but there needed to be more detail on the role. | | | |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 13:13 - Jul 22 with 1818 views | D_Alien |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 12:49 - Jul 22 by 100notout |
Was it established IF a trust director is necessary? |
Points were put forward both for and against. I'd hesitate to use the term "necessary"
The main issues (and i'm absolutely not looking to pre-empt the minutes from the Trust here) were how informed the membership were prior to the vote a few weeks ago. The meeting was called because it was felt that only a fully-informed membership vote had validity. This point is disputed... but as per my previous post, let's see what emerges in terms of Trust action in fully informing the membership regarding both the requirement and specification of the role - which includes main club board requirements and options to discuss that in order to retain Trust independence. These are the points i referred to as having been posted in this (and other) threads [Post edited 22 Jul 13:15]
| |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 13:25 - Jul 22 with 1798 views | 100notout |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 13:13 - Jul 22 by D_Alien |
Points were put forward both for and against. I'd hesitate to use the term "necessary"
The main issues (and i'm absolutely not looking to pre-empt the minutes from the Trust here) were how informed the membership were prior to the vote a few weeks ago. The meeting was called because it was felt that only a fully-informed membership vote had validity. This point is disputed... but as per my previous post, let's see what emerges in terms of Trust action in fully informing the membership regarding both the requirement and specification of the role - which includes main club board requirements and options to discuss that in order to retain Trust independence. These are the points i referred to as having been posted in this (and other) threads [Post edited 22 Jul 13:15]
|
Thanks for that DA.
Personally, given the current ownership structure, the necessary confidentiality and the recent establishment of CAB, I don't think it is necessary (or required or needed or whatever word you may wish to choose).
One thing I would say however is that IF there is to be one, the elected person must be entirely respectable and trustworthy with the skill and knowledge to challenge where appropriate and not there just to enjoy the hospitality. | |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 17:34 - Jul 22 with 1665 views | tony_roch975 |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 13:25 - Jul 22 by 100notout |
Thanks for that DA.
Personally, given the current ownership structure, the necessary confidentiality and the recent establishment of CAB, I don't think it is necessary (or required or needed or whatever word you may wish to choose).
One thing I would say however is that IF there is to be one, the elected person must be entirely respectable and trustworthy with the skill and knowledge to challenge where appropriate and not there just to enjoy the hospitality. |
A view I share 100, but to be fair to the Trust directors their argument is that a significant majority of those who took part in the recent survey voted for the Trust main Board director to continue.
The contrary argument was that the number participating was well below half the membership and that the lack of clarity around the role and person specification for the post and it's relationship with the CAB called the validity of the vote into question.
The meeting accepted that the original vote should be honoured with the proviso that the subsequent further clarification by the Trust directors which DA refers to may lead to further review.
Hope this doesn't also muddy the Trust minutes. | |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 18:05 - Jul 22 with 1619 views | judd |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 17:34 - Jul 22 by tony_roch975 |
A view I share 100, but to be fair to the Trust directors their argument is that a significant majority of those who took part in the recent survey voted for the Trust main Board director to continue.
The contrary argument was that the number participating was well below half the membership and that the lack of clarity around the role and person specification for the post and it's relationship with the CAB called the validity of the vote into question.
The meeting accepted that the original vote should be honoured with the proviso that the subsequent further clarification by the Trust directors which DA refers to may lead to further review.
Hope this doesn't also muddy the Trust minutes. |
The proposer of the meeting had voted in favour of continuity. It was the process taken by the Trust board that was being questioned in the main. | |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 20:55 - Jul 22 with 1474 views | wozzrafc |
Indeed many of the signatures for the meeting had voted for the trust director.
The meeting was to discuss the need for a director and if so clarification on their role. | | | |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 19:45 - Aug 5 with 1017 views | fitzochris |
Does anyone know if the minutes for this meeting have been published yet? I couldn’t make it and was looking for a breakdown. |  |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 19:47 - Aug 5 with 1004 views | turnthescrew |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 19:45 - Aug 5 by fitzochris |
Does anyone know if the minutes for this meeting have been published yet? I couldn’t make it and was looking for a breakdown. |
Great question. I can't find any trace of the minutes. Where are they? We are waiting. | | | |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 19:52 - Aug 5 with 966 views | judd |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 19:47 - Aug 5 by turnthescrew |
Great question. I can't find any trace of the minutes. Where are they? We are waiting. |
Couple of interesting things that came out of it:
Murray was the only Dale fans on the board with sufficient experience of what had gone on before . What about Jamie Sarsfield?
The Trust director is differentiated from the businessmen directors in their smart suits who've paid handsomely for a seat. ( I'm paraphrasing)
Cloughies estate provided £25k for a trust rep on the board.
The job spec details suitable attire on matchdays to enable hosting ( I'm paraphrasing)
Of course, denial of floortime to challenge this misinformation was denied. | |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 20:01 - Aug 5 with 941 views | turnthescrew |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 19:52 - Aug 5 by judd |
Couple of interesting things that came out of it:
Murray was the only Dale fans on the board with sufficient experience of what had gone on before . What about Jamie Sarsfield?
The Trust director is differentiated from the businessmen directors in their smart suits who've paid handsomely for a seat. ( I'm paraphrasing)
Cloughies estate provided £25k for a trust rep on the board.
The job spec details suitable attire on matchdays to enable hosting ( I'm paraphrasing)
Of course, denial of floortime to challenge this misinformation was denied. |
In which case a full and accurate, truthful account needs to be made public as soon as possible. How long does it take ffs? | | | |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 20:29 - Aug 5 with 863 views | D_Alien |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 20:01 - Aug 5 by turnthescrew |
In which case a full and accurate, truthful account needs to be made public as soon as possible. How long does it take ffs? |
A minute?
Or perhaps there's several minutes (versions of) and it's being decided which is "best" | |
| |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 12:57 - Aug 7 with 475 views | DaleiLama |
| Election of new Trust main board director on 19:52 - Aug 5 by judd |
Couple of interesting things that came out of it:
Murray was the only Dale fans on the board with sufficient experience of what had gone on before . What about Jamie Sarsfield?
The Trust director is differentiated from the businessmen directors in their smart suits who've paid handsomely for a seat. ( I'm paraphrasing)
Cloughies estate provided £25k for a trust rep on the board.
The job spec details suitable attire on matchdays to enable hosting ( I'm paraphrasing)
Of course, denial of floortime to challenge this misinformation was denied. |
Used to be a Trust member and regularly overpaid for the privilege by donation. Membership lapsed now and won't be renewed anytime soon until things change for the better. Ironically, trust exists between people, but isn't obligatory. It has to be earned and can be withdrawn |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
