| Next weeks fans forum 22:34 - Jul 23 with 29726 views | wombat |
Clive can we get a bingo card going with what we are going to be told on Tuesday night .
I’ll start with serious movement in the ground development scheme
Anyone care to add ? |  |
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| Next weeks fans forum on 15:21 - Aug 1 with 1069 views | francisbowles |
| Next weeks fans forum on 13:32 - Aug 1 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
I find this point of view interesting as there is no evidence whatsoever that not announcing contract lengths is 'bullshit'. Yet several posters on here keep repeating this with no knowledge.
By not announcing the length of contract it is not in the public domain. Therefore, it makes it harder for other clubs to track our players and put low bids in if a contract is being rundown. If a club does know then an illegal approach must have been made to either player or agent. QPR can then sanction the player or complain to the league.
I'm not saying the above is fact, but it seems the most likely explanation. I'm pretty sure the club isn't deliberately trying to create a lack of trust with some fans.
And if it does give us a competitive advantage then good on Nourry for doing it. |
It's very difficult to trace a leak never mind prove it, even more so if it has been done at a secret meeting or through an intermediary.
Therefore, the contract secrecy as a competitive advantage is bullsh1t.
It was apparent that Christian didn't give us any examples of how it has worked so far. If he provided just one for a first team squad player, we might be able to understand where he is coming from.
He also stated other clubs are doing it. Which ones? [Post edited 1 Aug 15:22]
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| Next weeks fans forum on 15:27 - Aug 1 with 1021 views | kensalriser |
| Next weeks fans forum on 13:32 - Aug 1 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
I find this point of view interesting as there is no evidence whatsoever that not announcing contract lengths is 'bullshit'. Yet several posters on here keep repeating this with no knowledge.
By not announcing the length of contract it is not in the public domain. Therefore, it makes it harder for other clubs to track our players and put low bids in if a contract is being rundown. If a club does know then an illegal approach must have been made to either player or agent. QPR can then sanction the player or complain to the league.
I'm not saying the above is fact, but it seems the most likely explanation. I'm pretty sure the club isn't deliberately trying to create a lack of trust with some fans.
And if it does give us a competitive advantage then good on Nourry for doing it. |
Come on, this is laughable.
What do you think agents do all day? |  |
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| Next weeks fans forum on 15:29 - Aug 1 with 1014 views | EuroRanger |
| Next weeks fans forum on 15:48 - Jul 31 by nix |
Yes I agree. Far more worthy of discussion than contract lengths which has been done to death, been buried and had a gravestone put up and it still says nothing about where we're going to end up this season or over the next three years.
It's a gamble putting all your chips on players who will/won't come good. But it does seem the only viable long term strategy. Have we got enough established players in the squad to pull us through this season? Will loans be a fig leaf? The next few weeks could be very interesting. |
Agreed on all fronts.
It's been interesting watching Wrexham and Ipswich drop multiple millions on players with effectively no resale where we're having to make every signing on the basis that they may have future resale. It's going to be a bit of a bonkers division on that basis, and I'm nervous that we'll struggle in the here and now (however much I agree with the strategy).
Same with loans - I understand that we don't want to be developing other people's players but it's hard not to look at the squad and think we might be quite thin in spots... | | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 15:30 - Aug 1 with 1006 views | Stainrod |
| Next weeks fans forum on 13:55 - Aug 1 by stainrods_elbow |
Which is basically just to say 'the proof of the pudding', I guess. To continue the culinary metaphor, if it goes tits up, everyone (at every club) ends up with egg on their faces. Nourry, Julien and any CEO/maanger can talk a good game all they like, but in the end it's how the players perform on the pitch. |
You cook tits? | | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:00 - Aug 1 with 919 views | numptydumpty |
What does irk me a little, is that a few posters and some respected alumni like Dave Mcintyre and Clive, say all fans are bothered intensely by the fact we do not know contract lengtha etc.
Who are we to say this hasnt given a competitive advantage when selling our players.
Three sales alone, under Nourrys reign, we seem to have got very favourable terms and monies in Dykes, Armstrong and Kelman.
But its said by those wanting the transparency in that they say categorically this gives us zero advantage in the selling process and they will then say without fear of it being wrong and without fear that they believe the agent will know all this, as well.
Are all these that say this, saying from a position, where they are heavily intertwined in the negotiation process - i would suggest not and its complete hearsay !!
If the sales continue to be consistently in our favour, then perhaps some of the posters that believe this has zero impact, may need to reconsider why we doing so well with transfer terms on the majority.
The logic to me is a reasonable assessment.
Can understand the frustration from a journalistic perspective though.
Bu5, asolutely its far from 100% against this strategy. But we are told thats nonsense , it is almost everyone.that is wound up by this lack of transparency.
Thats false.... Sorry [Post edited 1 Aug 16:07]
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| Next weeks fans forum on 16:06 - Aug 1 with 907 views | francisbowles |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:00 - Aug 1 by numptydumpty |
What does irk me a little, is that a few posters and some respected alumni like Dave Mcintyre and Clive, say all fans are bothered intensely by the fact we do not know contract lengtha etc.
Who are we to say this hasnt given a competitive advantage when selling our players.
Three sales alone, under Nourrys reign, we seem to have got very favourable terms and monies in Dykes, Armstrong and Kelman.
But its said by those wanting the transparency in that they say categorically this gives us zero advantage in the selling process and they will then say without fear of it being wrong and without fear that they believe the agent will know all this, as well.
Are all these that say this, saying from a position, where they are heavily intertwined in the negotiation process - i would suggest not and its complete hearsay !!
If the sales continue to be consistently in our favour, then perhaps some of the posters that believe this has zero impact, may need to reconsider why we doing so well with transfer terms on the majority.
The logic to me is a reasonable assessment.
Can understand the frustration from a journalistic perspective though.
Bu5, asolutely its far from 100% against this strategy. But we are told thats nonsense , it is almost everyone.that is wound up by this lack of transparency.
Thats false.... Sorry [Post edited 1 Aug 16:07]
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As Dykes and Armstrong were signed before Noury was in charge their contract lengths were almost certainly in the public domain. So it couldn't have been a factor.
Kelman, maybe but I doubt it. If his contract wasn't going into the final year then we would surely have got a higher fee than the reported one. | | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:09 - Aug 1 with 883 views | Northernr |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:00 - Aug 1 by numptydumpty |
What does irk me a little, is that a few posters and some respected alumni like Dave Mcintyre and Clive, say all fans are bothered intensely by the fact we do not know contract lengtha etc.
Who are we to say this hasnt given a competitive advantage when selling our players.
Three sales alone, under Nourrys reign, we seem to have got very favourable terms and monies in Dykes, Armstrong and Kelman.
But its said by those wanting the transparency in that they say categorically this gives us zero advantage in the selling process and they will then say without fear of it being wrong and without fear that they believe the agent will know all this, as well.
Are all these that say this, saying from a position, where they are heavily intertwined in the negotiation process - i would suggest not and its complete hearsay !!
If the sales continue to be consistently in our favour, then perhaps some of the posters that believe this has zero impact, may need to reconsider why we doing so well with transfer terms on the majority.
The logic to me is a reasonable assessment.
Can understand the frustration from a journalistic perspective though.
Bu5, asolutely its far from 100% against this strategy. But we are told thats nonsense , it is almost everyone.that is wound up by this lack of transparency.
Thats false.... Sorry [Post edited 1 Aug 16:07]
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What's also totally false is "Clive, say all fans are bothered intensely by the fact we do not know contract length". I haven't said that at all. |  | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:10 - Aug 1 with 849 views | numptydumpty |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:06 - Aug 1 by francisbowles |
As Dykes and Armstrong were signed before Noury was in charge their contract lengths were almost certainly in the public domain. So it couldn't have been a factor.
Kelman, maybe but I doubt it. If his contract wasn't going into the final year then we would surely have got a higher fee than the reported one. |
Good point there.
But they were decent prices no doubt
But lets see. If we get a progressive and forward moving club, the contracts can be kept secret forevermore as far as i am concerned.
Just saying its far from 100% peed off with this strategy, as others say. Thats simply not true.
And all those against, what insight do you have that others are not aware of, in how the negotiation process.will take place. [Post edited 1 Aug 16:28]
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| Next weeks fans forum on 16:32 - Aug 1 with 757 views | numptydumpty |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:09 - Aug 1 by Northernr |
What's also totally false is "Clive, say all fans are bothered intensely by the fact we do not know contract length". I haven't said that at all. |
Ok well its been said its the main question that fans are worried about, wherever you meet Rangers fans and in his interview Dave mentioned the word "all" fans.
Anyhow, no probs, you get the drift though... [Post edited 1 Aug 16:33]
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| Next weeks fans forum on 16:36 - Aug 1 with 743 views | QPR_Hibs |
| Next weeks fans forum on 19:02 - Jul 30 by kensalriser |
The idea the club gains some kind of competitive advantage by not disclosing contract lengths is farcical.
The player knows and the player's agent knows. They're hardly going to keep it secret when it may be contrary to their interests.
Does anyone believe for a nanosecond Charlton didn't know the precise date Kelman's contract was up? |
I think all fans really want to know is if their "favourite player" will still be here next year .... [Post edited 1 Aug 16:36]
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| Next weeks fans forum on 16:37 - Aug 1 with 713 views | numptydumpty |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:36 - Aug 1 by QPR_Hibs |
I think all fans really want to know is if their "favourite player" will still be here next year .... [Post edited 1 Aug 16:36]
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"I get that"....... | |
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| Next weeks fans forum on 16:39 - Aug 1 with 723 views | Northernr |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:32 - Aug 1 by numptydumpty |
Ok well its been said its the main question that fans are worried about, wherever you meet Rangers fans and in his interview Dave mentioned the word "all" fans.
Anyhow, no probs, you get the drift though... [Post edited 1 Aug 16:33]
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I haven't said that either.
Is it the main thing people are worried about? No
Is it something all fans are worried about? No.
But 1, I didn't like the way he tried to divide it up between the pwopah everyday QPR fan on the tube who doesn't care about this (plenty of them do) and weirdoes who run websites or go to fan forums. A lot of people do care about this both in my experience and there's a pretty equal split across this thread of people who do and don't so it's not just fan sites, bloggers etc.
2, we're all QPR fans, we're all entitled to our opinions and concerns, it's no more or less valid if it's expressed on a forum, at a meeting or on the Central Line.
3, as I've said, it's summer now, we're all happy and optimistic and looking forward to a new season. If this goes to sht, people will care about this a lot more. There'll be a lot more questions about what have you done and how have you been running my club if we struggle again, including by some on here who are currently repeatedly beating us over the head with how wonderful everything is, but by then it's too late because once you lose these things they don't come back - in fact they're probably thinking about what's the next thing they shouldn't be telling us for "competitive advantage". | | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:40 - Aug 1 with 720 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:36 - Aug 1 by QPR_Hibs |
I think all fans really want to know is if their "favourite player" will still be here next year .... [Post edited 1 Aug 16:36]
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Well, the message to me seemed to be that we need to sell our best player every year to fund the purchase of our next best player.
So, similar to the model in the 90's!
Given this ethos the answer will usually be "No" if he's had a great season he should be on the way out, until the club can wipe its own ar5e financially, which looking at the Premier League means what (top 3)? |  | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 17:10 - Aug 1 with 664 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Next weeks fans forum on 07:32 - Jul 30 by daveB |
There are certainly some positives. I really like the coaching approach to development, bringing in specialists like Bould and Betsy, in theory that should be a big help to achieve things,
Ultimatley it's all stuff we heard before but with a different voice, developing players, picking them up from other clubs, pathways to the first team, fans being patient and the aim is to be sustainable not win the league. We heard it all from les, Ramsey and so really it's just a new voice saying the same things in a different way.
Whether it goes better or not remains to be seen. Lets hope it does |
The difference being that Ferdinand and Hoos had the idea of putting a process in place but crumbled the moment Beale turned up and demanded his own way with signings.
That, ultimately, caused the downfall of Ferdinand. Ramsey, alluded to by Nourry, was too loyal to certain development players when it was obvious they were never going to make it. A more ruthless approach is necessary to ensure that we realise the potential of youngsters early and they look capable of stepping up to the first team before they hit 19/20, otherwise they too will be released and replaced.
The constant changing of managers and direction at their whim has done nothing but drag us further into the abyss. Time to come up with a well thought out strategic plan and actually stick to it.
It looks like a 27 year old man with minimal experience across the game may well be doing just that. Big job, but he sounds more authentic and genuine than most of the so called football experts that have soiled our club over the last 10 years.
Good luck to him. | | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 18:04 - Aug 1 with 562 views | nix |
| Next weeks fans forum on 12:43 - Aug 1 by Stainrod |
Yes to the Nourry strategy even a really good player coming on loan for free is a negative because it blocks one of 11 slots the club has each week to develop one of its assets ("assets" being what Nourry views them as, more than players).
If he is being consistent (and he did say consistency was what would mark us out from other clubs) then I would assume we would only take a loan or sign an older player as absolute emergency to avoid relegation (like Edwards last season). |
I wouldn't see consistency as being that tightly drawn. I think everyone knows we need to stay up as well as developing players. If we needed to loan someone experienced in to do that I think we would.
Inconsistency would be tearing up the developing players model and putting all our cash into old-timers like we did under Warburton with Johansson and Austin.
Edwards was a smart move though I think as we only had to pay from January-June and we didn't have to pay a loan fee I'm guessing like you do in the summer. I also think we're saving some cash by e.g. not paying Colback and Fox in July/August. Their combined salary is reportedly £1.5 million. Not paying them for even two months saves you £250k which can go towards loaning/buying someone else.
Of course it's all a gamble and we may be in trouble by the end of August and struggle to get a decent loan in. But I can see a rationale. |  | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 18:41 - Aug 1 with 453 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:39 - Aug 1 by Northernr |
I haven't said that either.
Is it the main thing people are worried about? No
Is it something all fans are worried about? No.
But 1, I didn't like the way he tried to divide it up between the pwopah everyday QPR fan on the tube who doesn't care about this (plenty of them do) and weirdoes who run websites or go to fan forums. A lot of people do care about this both in my experience and there's a pretty equal split across this thread of people who do and don't so it's not just fan sites, bloggers etc.
2, we're all QPR fans, we're all entitled to our opinions and concerns, it's no more or less valid if it's expressed on a forum, at a meeting or on the Central Line.
3, as I've said, it's summer now, we're all happy and optimistic and looking forward to a new season. If this goes to sht, people will care about this a lot more. There'll be a lot more questions about what have you done and how have you been running my club if we struggle again, including by some on here who are currently repeatedly beating us over the head with how wonderful everything is, but by then it's too late because once you lose these things they don't come back - in fact they're probably thinking about what's the next thing they shouldn't be telling us for "competitive advantage". |
As to your claim in (2), my observations are that, when it comes to chat sites like this one (and probably other such fora), some people are definitely more equal than others (cf. George Orwell).
To quote Depeche Mode, it's a lot like life. |  |
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| Next weeks fans forum on 18:48 - Aug 1 with 448 views | Northernr |
| Next weeks fans forum on 18:41 - Aug 1 by stainrods_elbow |
As to your claim in (2), my observations are that, when it comes to chat sites like this one (and probably other such fora), some people are definitely more equal than others (cf. George Orwell).
To quote Depeche Mode, it's a lot like life. |
Yeh, there are ones who engage with each other and debate, and there are those who call the other posters thick and stupid and therefore don’t get a positive response in return. | | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 19:26 - Aug 1 with 385 views | kensalriser |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:00 - Aug 1 by numptydumpty |
What does irk me a little, is that a few posters and some respected alumni like Dave Mcintyre and Clive, say all fans are bothered intensely by the fact we do not know contract lengtha etc.
Who are we to say this hasnt given a competitive advantage when selling our players.
Three sales alone, under Nourrys reign, we seem to have got very favourable terms and monies in Dykes, Armstrong and Kelman.
But its said by those wanting the transparency in that they say categorically this gives us zero advantage in the selling process and they will then say without fear of it being wrong and without fear that they believe the agent will know all this, as well.
Are all these that say this, saying from a position, where they are heavily intertwined in the negotiation process - i would suggest not and its complete hearsay !!
If the sales continue to be consistently in our favour, then perhaps some of the posters that believe this has zero impact, may need to reconsider why we doing so well with transfer terms on the majority.
The logic to me is a reasonable assessment.
Can understand the frustration from a journalistic perspective though.
Bu5, asolutely its far from 100% against this strategy. But we are told thats nonsense , it is almost everyone.that is wound up by this lack of transparency.
Thats false.... Sorry [Post edited 1 Aug 16:07]
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Perhaps I've misunderstood, but are you suggesting a player's agent will not know the length of his client's contract? | |
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| Next weeks fans forum on 19:42 - Aug 1 with 341 views | loftupper |
| Next weeks fans forum on 16:39 - Aug 1 by Northernr |
I haven't said that either.
Is it the main thing people are worried about? No
Is it something all fans are worried about? No.
But 1, I didn't like the way he tried to divide it up between the pwopah everyday QPR fan on the tube who doesn't care about this (plenty of them do) and weirdoes who run websites or go to fan forums. A lot of people do care about this both in my experience and there's a pretty equal split across this thread of people who do and don't so it's not just fan sites, bloggers etc.
2, we're all QPR fans, we're all entitled to our opinions and concerns, it's no more or less valid if it's expressed on a forum, at a meeting or on the Central Line.
3, as I've said, it's summer now, we're all happy and optimistic and looking forward to a new season. If this goes to sht, people will care about this a lot more. There'll be a lot more questions about what have you done and how have you been running my club if we struggle again, including by some on here who are currently repeatedly beating us over the head with how wonderful everything is, but by then it's too late because once you lose these things they don't come back - in fact they're probably thinking about what's the next thing they shouldn't be telling us for "competitive advantage". |
That last comment could also work the other way, what are you going to ask for next if they cave in and tell you the contract lengths..
Salaries are known about and discussed by the agents so that might as well be common knowledge. Win bonuses, Sell on clauses, detailed breakdown of players mental health conditions... | | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 19:47 - Aug 1 with 328 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Next weeks fans forum on 18:04 - Aug 1 by nix |
I wouldn't see consistency as being that tightly drawn. I think everyone knows we need to stay up as well as developing players. If we needed to loan someone experienced in to do that I think we would.
Inconsistency would be tearing up the developing players model and putting all our cash into old-timers like we did under Warburton with Johansson and Austin.
Edwards was a smart move though I think as we only had to pay from January-June and we didn't have to pay a loan fee I'm guessing like you do in the summer. I also think we're saving some cash by e.g. not paying Colback and Fox in July/August. Their combined salary is reportedly £1.5 million. Not paying them for even two months saves you £250k which can go towards loaning/buying someone else.
Of course it's all a gamble and we may be in trouble by the end of August and struggle to get a decent loan in. But I can see a rationale. |
Can we look at some of those sums?
£250k per month for both players?
£125k ea? £31k each a week for Colback and Fox?
That can’t be right can it?
How does that sit with the third lowest budget in the Championship? | | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 19:49 - Aug 1 with 326 views | BristolR |
| Next weeks fans forum on 15:30 - Aug 1 by Stainrod |
You cook tits? |
Paris Brest, non? |  | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 21:34 - Aug 1 with 232 views | nix |
| Next weeks fans forum on 19:47 - Aug 1 by nick_hammersmith |
Can we look at some of those sums?
£250k per month for both players?
£125k ea? £31k each a week for Colback and Fox?
That can’t be right can it?
How does that sit with the third lowest budget in the Championship? |
No,it's two of them earning £15k each, so £60k each per month, £120k per two months x 2 plus a bit extra because there are 52 not 48 weeks a year. Okay so the figures might be a bit toppy. But when money is tight even £150k for example makes a difference. | | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 22:23 - Aug 1 with 182 views | Northernr |
| Next weeks fans forum on 19:42 - Aug 1 by loftupper |
That last comment could also work the other way, what are you going to ask for next if they cave in and tell you the contract lengths..
Salaries are known about and discussed by the agents so that might as well be common knowledge. Win bonuses, Sell on clauses, detailed breakdown of players mental health conditions... |
Mental health conditions is a bit of a low blow so I’ll ignore that, but yeh in general I think the fans should know as much as possible about how their club is being run and spending its money. And I don’t really get fans saying they’re all in favour of being told less. It’s a bit turkeys and Christmas.
Until about 6 weeks ago the Hull fans thought everything was fine and their owner was great and knew what he was doing. | | | |
| Next weeks fans forum on 22:27 - Aug 1 with 167 views | wombat |
| Next weeks fans forum on 22:23 - Aug 1 by Northernr |
Mental health conditions is a bit of a low blow so I’ll ignore that, but yeh in general I think the fans should know as much as possible about how their club is being run and spending its money. And I don’t really get fans saying they’re all in favour of being told less. It’s a bit turkeys and Christmas.
Until about 6 weeks ago the Hull fans thought everything was fine and their owner was great and knew what he was doing. |
Funny thing bout this is today Chalton and Peterborugh have both signed players and announced the contract length , fees undisclosed obviously but zero decks given on letting the poor fans know how long a contract is lol | |
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