| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? 23:15 - Aug 12 with 4908 views | HammersmithR |
We keep hearing the word ‘project’. What exactly is the project? Is is simply to play Nourry’s players that his computer has identified. Younger the better? And this is irrespective of how the actual team performs? If this is the case, then the fans will lose patience very quickly. Football is a results business. No one has explained the definition of Nourry’s project. Really struggling to warm to the guy. It’s like he’s using the club for his version of Football Manager. Stephan is clearly being told by above what to do and who should play. |  | | |  |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:16 - Aug 13 with 1894 views | francisbowles |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 23:48 - Aug 12 by HAMRanger |
I think its's fecking hilarious that my post has been disliked cos I asked a question! Brilliant.  |
In an effort to see who had down voted you, my fat fingers have made it two 😬 | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:55 - Aug 13 with 1766 views | nix |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:24 - Aug 13 by HammersmithR |
You can read through many of my messages. I’ll give praise when it’s due and I will be critical when I feel I need to be. I like the majority of Rangers fans want what’s best for the club. The handling of those players yesterday was not right in my opinion. Do I feel like many Rangers fans that the new manager is some kind of puppet for Nourry then the evidence looks pretty clear to me at the moment. There’s no way in 6 weeks in a job that Stephan would have known enough to chuck those players out there last night. This clubs needs to progress. We can’t simply keep aiming to stay up every season. We are Queen’s Park Rangers. Look at our cup record in the last 30 years. It’s beyond embarrassing. Last time I saw us in the QF of the FA Cup was at Old Trafford in 1995!!! A generation of fans have never seen us past the 4th round of the FA Cup. Please don’t tell me that’s acceptable. Both Warburton and Marti were sacked because they didn’t tow the party line. Early evidence is showing that Stephan is towing the line. But we know if results don’t go our way then fans will start to get frustrated. That’s normal. I’ll be there on Saturday and I’ll be there at Coventry etc. The team will always have my support but if I think the board are not doing things right then I will certainly say what I think which we as fans are all entitled to. |
I have looked through your posts seeing you invitedme to, and they're a mishmash of speculation - Lee Hoos in 2023 apparently leaving to plan the World Cup, insults - calling the players fairies a particular lowlight and calling for us to be more like Brentford - oh the irony!
If that's the quality of your evidence then I feel confident in challenging it.
Your response is a classic one from someone who believes feelings = evidence. When challenged with a few facts you:
1) Change focus of the discussion: no longer talking about the project on your own thread asking about the project and somehow making someone who's been in charge for less than two years responsible for 30 years failure in cup games.
2)Name-calling: Stephan is a puppet for doing something you don't like.
3) Sock puppetry: implying that I think the last 30 years' cup record is acceptable. I didn't say that. What I have said is that when you have a lot of injuries I can understand prioritising the League because staying up is essential. There is a strong argument that we've overdone that on this occasion but I'm guessing neither of us know the data from the physios and the medical team. Maybe Stephan has been told to limit time of certain players e.g. Burrell to avoid injuries. I was told by a physio that a certain manager in the past ignored advice which led to long term injury.
Your claim that Marti and Warbs were forced out for not toeing the line is not based on fact but opinion. I loved Warbs but he was backed with an expensive team and only reached 11th place with Andre Gray, Charlie Austin, Lee Wallace, Johansen and Austin none of whom were cheap or had resale value. Marti I've heard was touting for jobs after his first summer as well as this one. That and his record of moving on within 18 months from every job he's had is better evidence to me than the puppet theory. That plus his going to a parachute, much higher profile club. He did a lot for us but he's not a victim and neither is Stephan.
I don't doubt your support for the club or your desitre to see us progress but I do question your excessive negativity. Your posts are so overwhelmingly critical that praise when it's due seems like a vanishingly unrealistic prospect and damning with very faint praise. [Post edited 13 Aug 12:12]
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| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:20 - Aug 13 with 1681 views | HammersmithR |
You sound like you work for the club. People can be critical! We’re not in some state controlled country! Over 40 years following this club. I think I have a right as any other supporter to pull the club up on something if I think it’s not right. It’s what wanting what is best for your club. If you’re the CEO of the club people will always question whether you’re doing the right thing or not. There are big questions in my opinion about Nourry. Time will tell if his ‘project’ is the right thing. I saw what’s happened with the likes of Marti and Warburton. The moment they disagree with the board they’ll be out the door and the whole circus will start again. We are Queen’s Park Rangers. We should not be used as a ‘toy’ for some vanity project. Praise will be given when it’s due and when it’s not then I will give an opinion that’s different to yours. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:21 - Aug 13 with 1674 views | Stocktake |
It's completely fine to prioritize the league in our current situation. But that was effectively throwing a game way for the lack of a few senior players in the subs bench. Surely players like Celar would benefit from 45 mins to build fitness and confidence? Then you are in round 2 and another chance to blood the youngsters. Whatever the plan is it feels way too risky . | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:44 - Aug 13 with 1604 views | nix |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:20 - Aug 13 by HammersmithR |
You sound like you work for the club. People can be critical! We’re not in some state controlled country! Over 40 years following this club. I think I have a right as any other supporter to pull the club up on something if I think it’s not right. It’s what wanting what is best for your club. If you’re the CEO of the club people will always question whether you’re doing the right thing or not. There are big questions in my opinion about Nourry. Time will tell if his ‘project’ is the right thing. I saw what’s happened with the likes of Marti and Warburton. The moment they disagree with the board they’ll be out the door and the whole circus will start again. We are Queen’s Park Rangers. We should not be used as a ‘toy’ for some vanity project. Praise will be given when it’s due and when it’s not then I will give an opinion that’s different to yours. |
OMG the full bingo card. I must be a Nourry plant if I see some positives. As people will tell you I've been a member of this message board for years not some QPR mouthpiece.
I don't think I said you couldn't post or what you should post. Just my reflections.
Again with the opinions presented as fact with Warbs and Marti. Zero facts but sure you know what you know.
Time will tell you say with Nourry but then you suggest he's using us a toy forsome vanity project. I'd say that's someone who's not waiting to see but has already decided.
Your praise is very rare , which I think is unhelpful but you do you. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:46 - Aug 13 with 1590 views | bosh67 |
Two words that should be banned in life are 'project' and 'pleasant'. |  |
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| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:51 - Aug 13 with 1550 views | DavieQPR |
I'm sure the project is to give a group of keyboard warriors the chance to complain at everything and everyone at the club does regardless. If nothing current can be found then drag anything up from the last few years. |  | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 13:16 - Aug 13 with 1521 views | wombat |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:51 - Aug 13 by DavieQPR |
I'm sure the project is to give a group of keyboard warriors the chance to complain at everything and everyone at the club does regardless. If nothing current can be found then drag anything up from the last few years. |
can you clarifty if a keyboard warrior is somebod who sits at home and posts bollox
or a fan who travels home and away comes home and posts bollox ?
asking for a friend obviously . |  |
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| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 14:43 - Aug 13 with 1420 views | QPRSam |
We'll let Richard Kone explain his thoughts, after choosing us over Leicester, Toulouse, Swansea
“It was a really positive chat,” he said. “They showed me the project and it was really exciting.”
Like with Poku, they're not choosing us over a bunch of other clubs for no reason. We've seen short term improvements, but best not to conclude your final thoughts on this whole thing until we get a few years to see this all in play. Enjoy the ride :) | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 14:49 - Aug 13 with 1395 views | Rangersw12 |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 14:43 - Aug 13 by QPRSam |
We'll let Richard Kone explain his thoughts, after choosing us over Leicester, Toulouse, Swansea
“It was a really positive chat,” he said. “They showed me the project and it was really exciting.”
Like with Poku, they're not choosing us over a bunch of other clubs for no reason. We've seen short term improvements, but best not to conclude your final thoughts on this whole thing until we get a few years to see this all in play. Enjoy the ride :) |
Do we know if this project actually involves trying to win football matches ? | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 14:53 - Aug 13 with 1365 views | QPRSam |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 14:49 - Aug 13 by Rangersw12 |
Do we know if this project actually involves trying to win football matches ? |
Yeah you might have a point, I think the plan is to lose the rest of our games and eventually have Kone playing at Athletic Newham again. Project exposed | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 15:05 - Aug 13 with 1325 views | DavieQPR |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 13:16 - Aug 13 by wombat |
can you clarifty if a keyboard warrior is somebod who sits at home and posts bollox
or a fan who travels home and away comes home and posts bollox ?
asking for a friend obviously . |
A keyboard warrior is someone who post disparaging remarks all the time and relies on anonymity. Expect most do not attend games, especially away, where the fans are very vociferous in their support. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 16:46 - Aug 13 with 1175 views | nix |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 15:05 - Aug 13 by DavieQPR |
A keyboard warrior is someone who post disparaging remarks all the time and relies on anonymity. Expect most do not attend games, especially away, where the fans are very vociferous in their support. |
I agree. I know not everyone can attend away games or even many home games and some of those are our best posters - waves at Brian. But I've generally found away fans are the most supportive followed by those that go to a lot of home matches. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 17:32 - Aug 13 with 1092 views | kensalriser |
I'm used to losing in the cup so not especially bothered about last night's result. And all our recent history suggests we would have been quite capable of losing this by a single goal whatever team had been played.
I'm OK with the rationale that we need a multi-season plan with the target of incrementally improving the squad by profits from player turnover. It makes sense. We've tried hanging on to our better players and it hasn't worked because we can't afford to add enough quality to properly challenge. We need a different plan.
I'm also OK with the goals of starting a much younger team in games like last night's. Where it starts to fall down is what I can't help but infer to be a level of fanaticism. Just two or three senior players on the bench plus keeping Burrell on another 15 minutes would probably have won us that game. That more pragmatic approach would have delivered the same benefits of trying out nearly all of those players at negligible additional risk and the bonus of being able to do it all again in the next round.
That fanaticism comes from the same place as the control freakery and the disingenousness about eg not disclosing contract lengths. So while I'm all for the general thrust and like the look of the new signings vs experienced but expensive crocks, I'm not confident the execution is going to be there. I'd prefer pragmatism over ideology. |  |
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| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 17:42 - Aug 13 with 1063 views | simmo |
Some weird takes on here. Project is just another word for plan. Would you rather we didn't have one?? |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 19:12 - Aug 13 with 930 views | WokingR |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 17:42 - Aug 13 by simmo |
Some weird takes on here. Project is just another word for plan. Would you rather we didn't have one?? |
So why didn’t you say that at the start?
That could have saved 2 full pages |  | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 19:20 - Aug 13 with 894 views | Northolt_Rs |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 13:16 - Aug 13 by wombat |
can you clarifty if a keyboard warrior is somebod who sits at home and posts bollox
or a fan who travels home and away comes home and posts bollox ?
asking for a friend obviously . |
Mate, you do the hard miles trekking up and down the country following our club. You’ve every right to voice your opinions about QPR and I find myself agreeing with nearly all of them. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 20:01 - Aug 13 with 813 views | ChrisNW6 |
So have we all agreed on....'Be more like Brentford' as the name of the project/plan? | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 20:31 - Aug 13 with 767 views | CiderwithRsie |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 08:13 - Aug 13 by Burnleyhoop |
Projects by their very nature have a starting point and an end point with key milestones along the way. It is my understanding that this is a five year plan to to establish a strong youth development structure to facilitate a production line of youth team players that can initially integrate into the first team squad and then play in the first team. Once those milestones are achieved, we become a selling club of young talent that we have always strived to be, but with minimal success. Financially self sustaining is the ultimate goal.
This strategy was implemented at some stage last season with the release of many existing development players and the acquisition of new ones. I don’t have a problem with any of this and fully agree in principle with the project.
However, losing a cup game in the manner we did last night was totally unnecessary and achieved very little IMO. A few of the youngsters stood up to the challenge, but some looked demoralised by it. Removing Burrell at half time killed it for us, but the introduction of 4 first team players would have got us over the line for a much needed cup victory. I suspect Nourry and ST don’t fully understand or appreciate the depth of feeling the fans have with our shocking record in cup competitions.
The supporters desperately needed a win. The management were clearly not that bothered and probably felt more games in cup competitions were the last thing we needed considering our ongoing farcical position with injuries to the first team.
Disappointed, but if we have signed Kone, at least the we have progress with the development of the first team, which at this early point of the project is good to see.
It’s still very early days, get a grip of your shit. |
Absolutely this.
Personally I think it's about bleeding time that there was a project at QPR, a plan to move the club and team forward, instead of floating about in the bottom quarter of the Champ in a much-loved hovel while every other club in London disappears out of reach.
Writing off Cup games as a glorified friendly for the Development Squad grinds my gears, and I agree with everything Burnley says about that, too, but it isn't exactly new, is it?
I'll judge them on whether we make any progress but at this stage I wouldn't be hanging out the bunting if we'd won those two games either. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 21:09 - Aug 13 with 717 views | Burnleyhoop |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 17:32 - Aug 13 by kensalriser |
I'm used to losing in the cup so not especially bothered about last night's result. And all our recent history suggests we would have been quite capable of losing this by a single goal whatever team had been played.
I'm OK with the rationale that we need a multi-season plan with the target of incrementally improving the squad by profits from player turnover. It makes sense. We've tried hanging on to our better players and it hasn't worked because we can't afford to add enough quality to properly challenge. We need a different plan.
I'm also OK with the goals of starting a much younger team in games like last night's. Where it starts to fall down is what I can't help but infer to be a level of fanaticism. Just two or three senior players on the bench plus keeping Burrell on another 15 minutes would probably have won us that game. That more pragmatic approach would have delivered the same benefits of trying out nearly all of those players at negligible additional risk and the bonus of being able to do it all again in the next round.
That fanaticism comes from the same place as the control freakery and the disingenousness about eg not disclosing contract lengths. So while I'm all for the general thrust and like the look of the new signings vs experienced but expensive crocks, I'm not confident the execution is going to be there. I'd prefer pragmatism over ideology. |
Hear you Ken, but I think the best approach is to balance the two as and when appropriate or necessary. We are ultimately trying to make the first team more competitive to push us up the league whilst simultaneously developing youngsters capable of treading a path to the first team by giving them genuine game time.
That is not an easy thing to achieve for a club of our size with very limited financial resources and will need patience from the fans when the inevitable mistakes are made or things don’t pan out the way we all want or expect.
Today a typical example. Make a fantastic signing whilst simultaneously announcing Larkeche has done his ACL.
Shit happens and we have to deal with it the best way we can. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 21:31 - Aug 13 with 679 views | CiderwithRsie |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 17:32 - Aug 13 by kensalriser |
I'm used to losing in the cup so not especially bothered about last night's result. And all our recent history suggests we would have been quite capable of losing this by a single goal whatever team had been played.
I'm OK with the rationale that we need a multi-season plan with the target of incrementally improving the squad by profits from player turnover. It makes sense. We've tried hanging on to our better players and it hasn't worked because we can't afford to add enough quality to properly challenge. We need a different plan.
I'm also OK with the goals of starting a much younger team in games like last night's. Where it starts to fall down is what I can't help but infer to be a level of fanaticism. Just two or three senior players on the bench plus keeping Burrell on another 15 minutes would probably have won us that game. That more pragmatic approach would have delivered the same benefits of trying out nearly all of those players at negligible additional risk and the bonus of being able to do it all again in the next round.
That fanaticism comes from the same place as the control freakery and the disingenousness about eg not disclosing contract lengths. So while I'm all for the general thrust and like the look of the new signings vs experienced but expensive crocks, I'm not confident the execution is going to be there. I'd prefer pragmatism over ideology. |
Excellent post.
The lack of any experience on the bench feels like a wilful refusal to have a Plan B. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 08:59 - Aug 14 with 436 views | Northolt_Rs |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 20:01 - Aug 13 by ChrisNW6 |
So have we all agreed on....'Be more like Brentford' as the name of the project/plan? |
Plan Bee | |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:16 - Aug 14 with 404 views | Hunterhoop |
It is good to have a plan. Call it a project if you want.
I think most, even those critical of Nourry, agree the “plan” is correct. It’s not dissimilar to the plan voiced by Les (development club, buy low, sell high, become sustainable, data based - Belk was hired years ago by Les, etc). As Dave Mc says, there isn’t anything particularly new about this project/plan.
The whole debate is about HOW it is executed (as Kensal alludes to). That is where many of us have concerns over Nourry. We’d like to see more transparency, more pragmatism, more balance in the execution, and accountability (*Ben Williams). That’s all missing currently. And it doesn’t need to be. Indeed if you want to create unity and momentum across the club or an organisation you would typically over communicate, and strive to make all those things clear. The fact we don’t gets peoples’ spider senses tingling. That a number of first and second hand stories many of us have been told that worry us at the the character of Nourry and Ben Williams.
There is also a small angle that some of us feel by the plan is too extreme in terms of balancing the today with jam tomorrow. Personally, I think creating a winning culture is by far the most effective way to develop players and make them valuable. The more we win this year and next, the more valuable Kone and Poku will be. Same goes for any DS lads who fill in occassionally in a winning team. As I’ve said I’d like the plan to be a little more balanced.
But the concept of buy low, sell high, especially from the lower leagues, has literally been the QPR plan for the last decade (failed because the big signings failed), and all through the late 80s and 90s. Who actually disagrees with it? I felt Nourry did a bad job of it last summer, but looks to be doing an excellent job this summer. We’ll find out in a couple of years though.
But how we execute the overall plan can and should change. Again, few should really disagree with that. |  | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:33 - Aug 14 with 255 views | nix |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:16 - Aug 14 by Hunterhoop |
It is good to have a plan. Call it a project if you want.
I think most, even those critical of Nourry, agree the “plan” is correct. It’s not dissimilar to the plan voiced by Les (development club, buy low, sell high, become sustainable, data based - Belk was hired years ago by Les, etc). As Dave Mc says, there isn’t anything particularly new about this project/plan.
The whole debate is about HOW it is executed (as Kensal alludes to). That is where many of us have concerns over Nourry. We’d like to see more transparency, more pragmatism, more balance in the execution, and accountability (*Ben Williams). That’s all missing currently. And it doesn’t need to be. Indeed if you want to create unity and momentum across the club or an organisation you would typically over communicate, and strive to make all those things clear. The fact we don’t gets peoples’ spider senses tingling. That a number of first and second hand stories many of us have been told that worry us at the the character of Nourry and Ben Williams.
There is also a small angle that some of us feel by the plan is too extreme in terms of balancing the today with jam tomorrow. Personally, I think creating a winning culture is by far the most effective way to develop players and make them valuable. The more we win this year and next, the more valuable Kone and Poku will be. Same goes for any DS lads who fill in occassionally in a winning team. As I’ve said I’d like the plan to be a little more balanced.
But the concept of buy low, sell high, especially from the lower leagues, has literally been the QPR plan for the last decade (failed because the big signings failed), and all through the late 80s and 90s. Who actually disagrees with it? I felt Nourry did a bad job of it last summer, but looks to be doing an excellent job this summer. We’ll find out in a couple of years though.
But how we execute the overall plan can and should change. Again, few should really disagree with that. |
The thing is though, the season after Brentford were spending £5 million on Ivan Toney (67 goals in 128 games and a £40 million transfer fee) we were spending the crown jewels on Andre Gray, Stefan Johanson, Charlie Austin, Lee Wallace and Jeff Hendricks. None had any development potential or resale value. This stuffed us for a couple of FFP seasons as well as not providing upside in that season. Les might've voiced his commitment to youth but he didn't really commit to it as we are now. I think it's disingenuous to suggest there's been no change.
Your other points are all fair. Balance and injuries are big issues. Personally I don't think transparency about all aspects of the club is not always desirable and where it is I don't see it as quite the issue you do but respect your opinion. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:53 - Aug 14 with 206 views | loftus77 |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 14:49 - Aug 13 by Rangersw12 |
Do we know if this project actually involves trying to win football matches ? |
Don't be so ridiculous. Get with the programme...sorry...project. | | | |
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