| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? 23:15 - Aug 12 with 10964 views | HammersmithR |
We keep hearing the word ‘project’. What exactly is the project? Is is simply to play Nourry’s players that his computer has identified. Younger the better? And this is irrespective of how the actual team performs? If this is the case, then the fans will lose patience very quickly. Football is a results business. No one has explained the definition of Nourry’s project. Really struggling to warm to the guy. It’s like he’s using the club for his version of Football Manager. Stephan is clearly being told by above what to do and who should play. |  | | |  |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:42 - Aug 15 with 1249 views | SW_Ranger |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:31 - Aug 15 by Northernr |
It's a great post. It would help them in this if they were able to put their hand up occasionally to those mistakes you talk about. |
That’s totally fair Clive. And as fans we completely expect it’s our right to hear it.
Sadly, I haven’t met many bosses in my travels who like to tell their inner team they made a mistake and most certainly not the thousands of employees in the wider companies. They might talk about a plan adjustment though  |  | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:45 - Aug 15 with 1207 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 20:52 - Aug 14 by Burnleyhoop |
Les did indeed allude to the strategic plan of development of youth, buy low etc etc. But he and the club kept falling into the trap of allowing successive managers to dictate which players were brought in and the development squad became all but meaningless, with players hanging around for years with absolutely no chance of ever getting near the first team. Project shelved again.
Someone needed to get a grip of both elements of how the club was operating as there is no doubt we were heading into a death spiral.
Nourry has overseen the change required. He has made mistakes and will make many more. His communication leaves a lot to be desired, but both the first team and the development squad have made significant progress from where we were before he came.
As fans we are not privy to everything that goes on behind the scenes and the club is not required to give us daily updates on each and every decision made. What you or I or any fan prefers or likes is largely irrelevant. Opinions are fine, we all have them, but fundamentally we are very much moving in the right direction and anyone who believes otherwise isn’t looking properly. |
While I agree with some of the things he is doing (i.e. focus on younger players), Nourry hasn't achieved anything yet - yes, I like the direction of travel in terms of signing Poku, Kone, etc. but let's see how we perform this season.
It's bizarre how we still have Belk in charge of scouting yet now we're actually signing a higher calibre of player - does Nourry have a better computer than Les did? | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:47 - Aug 15 with 1202 views | mart_Goblin |
Some absolutely brilliant posts on this thread that really lay out some of the reasons for some of the criticisms of the club and the people running it day to day . Way better than I ever could .
Clear and to the point .
So many people saying the plan is fundamentally correct and the right way forward.
Not sure why people don’t and wont understand that .
It’s the execution and some of the reasons why, which raise worries and concerns to a lot of people . |  | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:48 - Aug 15 with 1196 views | Northernr |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:42 - Aug 15 by SW_Ranger |
That’s totally fair Clive. And as fans we completely expect it’s our right to hear it.
Sadly, I haven’t met many bosses in my travels who like to tell their inner team they made a mistake and most certainly not the thousands of employees in the wider companies. They might talk about a plan adjustment though |
One of the best things about the boss I've got now, and one of the reasons I've stayed with the company as long as I have, is because he makes strong, clear decisions, follows through with what he's said he will do, but if that turns out to be wrong he's not too pig headed and stubborn to stick with something that isn't working and he will put his hands up in front of the company and say "yeh, sorry, got that wrong". It's incredibly disarming, makes you warm to the guy immediately and want to work with him.
Again, it's communications. It would do Nourry the world of good with this support base if he did occasionally say "yeh, apologies, got that wrong and have learned from it".
They got last summer's recruitment wrong. We can all see that because we sat through last season. We can see that they know it, because this summer the recruitment is totally different. But instead of just saying "yeh, we made mistakes in our approach last summer, sorry about that, have learned from it" they're making out like it was always the plan to bring in some "more technical players" last year and then add pace, power, strength and EFL game smarts this summer. Everybody knows that's bolox, why pretend?
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:49 - Aug 15 with 1181 views | hubble |
This is one of the most
threads I've read on LFW! |  |
| |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:53 - Aug 15 with 1146 views | QPRSam |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:45 - Aug 15 by Wegerles_Stairs |
While I agree with some of the things he is doing (i.e. focus on younger players), Nourry hasn't achieved anything yet - yes, I like the direction of travel in terms of signing Poku, Kone, etc. but let's see how we perform this season.
It's bizarre how we still have Belk in charge of scouting yet now we're actually signing a higher calibre of player - does Nourry have a better computer than Les did? |
Whilst there was a slight change in strategy this summer, see Poku who explained that us tracking and wanting him for 4 years swayed his decision. Perhaps we're a more attractive proposition for players right now?
It's interesting if you watch the Kone interview, he talks a bit about JS and his development of Ballon D'or candidate players and how hopefully he can be the next one. This is all getting sold as part of the "project" and will be enticing to these players | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:55 - Aug 15 with 1128 views | Stainrod |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:16 - Aug 14 by Hunterhoop |
It is good to have a plan. Call it a project if you want.
I think most, even those critical of Nourry, agree the “plan” is correct. It’s not dissimilar to the plan voiced by Les (development club, buy low, sell high, become sustainable, data based - Belk was hired years ago by Les, etc). As Dave Mc says, there isn’t anything particularly new about this project/plan.
The whole debate is about HOW it is executed (as Kensal alludes to). That is where many of us have concerns over Nourry. We’d like to see more transparency, more pragmatism, more balance in the execution, and accountability (*Ben Williams). That’s all missing currently. And it doesn’t need to be. Indeed if you want to create unity and momentum across the club or an organisation you would typically over communicate, and strive to make all those things clear. The fact we don’t gets peoples’ spider senses tingling. That a number of first and second hand stories many of us have been told that worry us at the the character of Nourry and Ben Williams.
There is also a small angle that some of us feel by the plan is too extreme in terms of balancing the today with jam tomorrow. Personally, I think creating a winning culture is by far the most effective way to develop players and make them valuable. The more we win this year and next, the more valuable Kone and Poku will be. Same goes for any DS lads who fill in occassionally in a winning team. As I’ve said I’d like the plan to be a little more balanced.
But the concept of buy low, sell high, especially from the lower leagues, has literally been the QPR plan for the last decade (failed because the big signings failed), and all through the late 80s and 90s. Who actually disagrees with it? I felt Nourry did a bad job of it last summer, but looks to be doing an excellent job this summer. We’ll find out in a couple of years though.
But how we execute the overall plan can and should change. Again, few should really disagree with that. |
But Les didn’t implement any such plan, he merely talked about it.
His regime developed Eze and Chair (massive kudos there) but rather than replicating the Eze model he allowed managers to a) buy and loan players with zero sell on value and b) keep hold of rising stars rather than cash in and re-invest.
His regime was a failure, albeit he inherited another failure. We needed another dozen lads bombed out of the Arsenal academy in the hope that two made it, not an injury prone Odobajo or de Wijs (spelling?).
It seems what some don’t like is that, rather than paying lip service to this plan, we are now actually pursuing it rigorously. No more “we are in with a sniff of the play offs here so let’s get in Andre Gray on 20 bags a week for half a season and we can always get back to the project next season.”
For balance Nourry has made some, IMHO, very poor choices - notably Madsen and Celar. But those two signings were the least “project” signings he has made in that they were established players who he wrongly thought could adapt to the Championship.
But the blooding of Morrison, Kolli and Morgan has worked. It’s way too early to say definitively if it has been a success but footballing folklore says you should aim to have one young player break through per season. Many of the young players - by the law of averages - won’t make it. But hopefully by better targeting, better coaching and giving a pathway to the first team we will start to get an assembly line going.
Clearly pursuing a development strategy is not easy and there will be bleak nights like Tuesday.
But credit to Nourry that he has learned and adapted: for all the talk of consistency he now favours Division 1 over the Swiss league. And while a lot of the players are young it’s not like our overall squad resembles the team fielded against Plymouth: many of the youngsters signed this summer have considerable first team experience.
Nourry’s execution of the plan might not work. But in that scenario someone else will probably have to come in and try to do it better. I don’t see a world in which we hand the keys to a new Warburton or Beale and QPR succeed. Does anyone?
We won’t have the budget to “buy” promotion as we showed with the Andre Gray season. Not even close.
So amid all the complaints about this “project” what is the alternative? Because none of the critics have come up with one as far as i’m aware? | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:55 - Aug 15 with 1126 views | GaryBannister86 |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:45 - Aug 15 by Wegerles_Stairs |
While I agree with some of the things he is doing (i.e. focus on younger players), Nourry hasn't achieved anything yet - yes, I like the direction of travel in terms of signing Poku, Kone, etc. but let's see how we perform this season.
It's bizarre how we still have Belk in charge of scouting yet now we're actually signing a higher calibre of player - does Nourry have a better computer than Les did? |
I totally agree with you.
I get that the plan is something that should be followed and that we are now doing so. But to state confidently on the back of a couple of League One signings that all is looking good- I just don't get it. Of course I hope Burrell, Kone, Poku turn out to be as good as they seem to be. But how can we be so confident that it will? It hardly happens very often? As wombat says - we are QPR so......
If by Christmas we are solidly mid-table, winning some games and the signings are flourishing then I will join in with the bouquets and compliments. I will believe we are getting somewhere.
I just fear we are getting carried away on these "great signings" before seeing what wearing the hoops actually does to them?
As they say, 10,000 times bitten, twice shy. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 10:06 - Aug 15 with 1036 views | EuroRanger |
A couple of people in the thread have talked about "does Kone want to win with us or go to the PL?" and "we're still 16th"; I think we're missing the forest for the trees a little.
While we want to be going up the table (and god I hope we're higher than 16th this season) I think it's likely that the lads coming in now (Poku, Kone etc.) are not joining on the basis that they'll be with us in the Prem. In likelihood the plan is to be able to sell these players on next season or the season after for big fees that we can reinvest into creating a squad that can go up and stay up. I would guess this is why Nourry didn't immediately expect prem football in 5 years during the Fan's Forum, though obviously that's where we want to be.
Basically I don't imagine that Kone and Poku signed on the basis that we're likely to be promoted... | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 10:16 - Aug 15 with 988 views | ozexile |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:55 - Aug 15 by GaryBannister86 |
I totally agree with you.
I get that the plan is something that should be followed and that we are now doing so. But to state confidently on the back of a couple of League One signings that all is looking good- I just don't get it. Of course I hope Burrell, Kone, Poku turn out to be as good as they seem to be. But how can we be so confident that it will? It hardly happens very often? As wombat says - we are QPR so......
If by Christmas we are solidly mid-table, winning some games and the signings are flourishing then I will join in with the bouquets and compliments. I will believe we are getting somewhere.
I just fear we are getting carried away on these "great signings" before seeing what wearing the hoops actually does to them?
As they say, 10,000 times bitten, twice shy. |
Agree with this. I know X is not a good barometer but people on there coming out with ridiculous quotes about how good we are with these players now. That's all well and good,but we don't win football matches. We must be bottom now out of the 92 clubs for losses?
We lose when we're ahead, we concede the most ridiculous goals. We lose cup matches. We go on crazy runs with no wins. Any team that presses us slightly wins the ball off us.
So forgive my lack of enthusiasm about the project. Let's see some progress where it really counts. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 10:24 - Aug 15 with 962 views | Burnleyhoop |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:31 - Aug 15 by Northernr |
It's a great post. It would help them in this if they were able to put their hand up occasionally to those mistakes you talk about. |
Mistakes are always going to happen, anyone thinking otherwise is utterly deluded, but why is it absolutely necessary for Nourry or anyone else at the club to stick their hand up every five minutes begging for admonishment?
We have a long, hard road ahead of us to get anywhere near where we all want to be. It will be fking hard with plenty of problems along the way. But at least we appear to be on a road, going in a particular direction and not flailing around in the wilderness not knowing what direction to take as we have been for the last ten years.
I don’t state anything as fact, but in my opinion, which is worth no more than any other poster, I believe and hope, we will be, as a club, in a far better position next year than we are now.
This season will likely be another difficult one, but I hang on to the hope that the “jam” is visible and attainable in the not too distant future.
And yes, it is the hope that kills us all. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 10:29 - Aug 15 with 934 views | Northernr |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 10:24 - Aug 15 by Burnleyhoop |
Mistakes are always going to happen, anyone thinking otherwise is utterly deluded, but why is it absolutely necessary for Nourry or anyone else at the club to stick their hand up every five minutes begging for admonishment?
We have a long, hard road ahead of us to get anywhere near where we all want to be. It will be fking hard with plenty of problems along the way. But at least we appear to be on a road, going in a particular direction and not flailing around in the wilderness not knowing what direction to take as we have been for the last ten years.
I don’t state anything as fact, but in my opinion, which is worth no more than any other poster, I believe and hope, we will be, as a club, in a far better position next year than we are now.
This season will likely be another difficult one, but I hang on to the hope that the “jam” is visible and attainable in the not too distant future.
And yes, it is the hope that kills us all. |
"absolutely necessary for Nourry or anyone else at the club to stick their hand up every five minutes begging for admonishment?"
Yeh, cos that's what I said isn't it? Fck me. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:16 - Aug 15 with 787 views | simmo |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 10:24 - Aug 15 by Burnleyhoop |
Mistakes are always going to happen, anyone thinking otherwise is utterly deluded, but why is it absolutely necessary for Nourry or anyone else at the club to stick their hand up every five minutes begging for admonishment?
We have a long, hard road ahead of us to get anywhere near where we all want to be. It will be fking hard with plenty of problems along the way. But at least we appear to be on a road, going in a particular direction and not flailing around in the wilderness not knowing what direction to take as we have been for the last ten years.
I don’t state anything as fact, but in my opinion, which is worth no more than any other poster, I believe and hope, we will be, as a club, in a far better position next year than we are now.
This season will likely be another difficult one, but I hang on to the hope that the “jam” is visible and attainable in the not too distant future.
And yes, it is the hope that kills us all. |
"Mistakes are always going to happen"
Exactly! We know that better than anyone, we've seen them all before. If you're in your 20s and this is your first time doing this job - or let's be honest any actual job close to this magnitude - that might even mean lots of smaller mistakes that come with the territory. Again, THIS IS FINE. Just own them, take us with you. We all want the same thing, we want to be a part of it. We can help.
Don't create division where it doesn't need to be, especially when there's so much good happening and so much to feel quietly confident about. Currently it feels like everything good and bad comes with caveats and it doesn't need to be that way.
Edit; Also worth adding that this is a 2 way street. We know that any successful change will come with long term thinking, we know we have to be different to achieve something, we know the million things we've tried before haven't worked.... Maybe some feel Nourry is a bit of a dīck, but that might not mean he's not a good person for the job - especially with the way the game is now. I'm not going to blindly follow everything or not call out what I feel is bullshìt, but I am capable of focusing more on the good I see while we go through this situation, instead of putting all my energy into the negatives. [Post edited 15 Aug 11:31]
|  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
| |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:29 - Aug 15 with 718 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:16 - Aug 15 by simmo |
"Mistakes are always going to happen"
Exactly! We know that better than anyone, we've seen them all before. If you're in your 20s and this is your first time doing this job - or let's be honest any actual job close to this magnitude - that might even mean lots of smaller mistakes that come with the territory. Again, THIS IS FINE. Just own them, take us with you. We all want the same thing, we want to be a part of it. We can help.
Don't create division where it doesn't need to be, especially when there's so much good happening and so much to feel quietly confident about. Currently it feels like everything good and bad comes with caveats and it doesn't need to be that way.
Edit; Also worth adding that this is a 2 way street. We know that any successful change will come with long term thinking, we know we have to be different to achieve something, we know the million things we've tried before haven't worked.... Maybe some feel Nourry is a bit of a dīck, but that might not mean he's not a good person for the job - especially with the way the game is now. I'm not going to blindly follow everything or not call out what I feel is bullshìt, but I am capable of focusing more on the good I see while we go through this situation, instead of putting all my energy into the negatives. [Post edited 15 Aug 11:31]
|
Swami Simmo.
 |  |
| |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:34 - Aug 15 with 681 views | simmo |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:29 - Aug 15 by BrianMcCarthy |
Swami Simmo.
|
I say all that but still reserve the right to lose my shit tomorrow after Watford give us a shoeing 😅 | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
| |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:37 - Aug 15 with 654 views | Burnleyhoop |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 10:29 - Aug 15 by Northernr |
"absolutely necessary for Nourry or anyone else at the club to stick their hand up every five minutes begging for admonishment?"
Yeh, cos that's what I said isn't it? Fck me. |
I don’t see Levy or any other CEO coming out begging for forgiveness when they make mistakes.
What makes QPR fans, or you, believe they should have the privilege?
If Nourry or anyone else makes a mistake, the only one they have a responsibility to is their immediate boss. Go and apologise to Ruben and learn your lessons.
The constant need for transparency across everything in life is all well and good, but looks to be creating more anger and division than the good it was supposed to.
No need for the f*ck me sarcasm either. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:37 - Aug 15 with 652 views | GroveR |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:55 - Aug 15 by Stainrod |
But Les didn’t implement any such plan, he merely talked about it.
His regime developed Eze and Chair (massive kudos there) but rather than replicating the Eze model he allowed managers to a) buy and loan players with zero sell on value and b) keep hold of rising stars rather than cash in and re-invest.
His regime was a failure, albeit he inherited another failure. We needed another dozen lads bombed out of the Arsenal academy in the hope that two made it, not an injury prone Odobajo or de Wijs (spelling?).
It seems what some don’t like is that, rather than paying lip service to this plan, we are now actually pursuing it rigorously. No more “we are in with a sniff of the play offs here so let’s get in Andre Gray on 20 bags a week for half a season and we can always get back to the project next season.”
For balance Nourry has made some, IMHO, very poor choices - notably Madsen and Celar. But those two signings were the least “project” signings he has made in that they were established players who he wrongly thought could adapt to the Championship.
But the blooding of Morrison, Kolli and Morgan has worked. It’s way too early to say definitively if it has been a success but footballing folklore says you should aim to have one young player break through per season. Many of the young players - by the law of averages - won’t make it. But hopefully by better targeting, better coaching and giving a pathway to the first team we will start to get an assembly line going.
Clearly pursuing a development strategy is not easy and there will be bleak nights like Tuesday.
But credit to Nourry that he has learned and adapted: for all the talk of consistency he now favours Division 1 over the Swiss league. And while a lot of the players are young it’s not like our overall squad resembles the team fielded against Plymouth: many of the youngsters signed this summer have considerable first team experience.
Nourry’s execution of the plan might not work. But in that scenario someone else will probably have to come in and try to do it better. I don’t see a world in which we hand the keys to a new Warburton or Beale and QPR succeed. Does anyone?
We won’t have the budget to “buy” promotion as we showed with the Andre Gray season. Not even close.
So amid all the complaints about this “project” what is the alternative? Because none of the critics have come up with one as far as i’m aware? |
Regime? Last I checked Les used to be the director of football, not the prime minister of Cambodia in the 70s.
The whole tenuous power balance of Manager/DoF/Board led to little to no accountability or ownership at QPR. I'd say mistakes of the past decade have been disproportionately put on Les (who made some, don't get me wrong), rather than at the feet of those higher up, which if you're one of those individuals, is exactly what you want. McLaren, Warbs and Beale being allowed to do as they pleased just cannot have been something any DoF welcomed.
The biggest benefit I can see of Nourry basically writing the theme tune and singing the theme tune (his "project") is any success will accrue to him. As will any failure. I pray to my signed Roy Wegerle shirt it's more of the former than the latter. |  | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:41 - Aug 15 with 613 views | Northolt_Rs |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:37 - Aug 15 by Burnleyhoop |
I don’t see Levy or any other CEO coming out begging for forgiveness when they make mistakes.
What makes QPR fans, or you, believe they should have the privilege?
If Nourry or anyone else makes a mistake, the only one they have a responsibility to is their immediate boss. Go and apologise to Ruben and learn your lessons.
The constant need for transparency across everything in life is all well and good, but looks to be creating more anger and division than the good it was supposed to.
No need for the f*ck me sarcasm either. |
Fck me. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
| |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:52 - Aug 15 with 551 views | Stainrod |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 09:22 - Aug 15 by Northernr |
We were talking post Plymouth about this and I think this thread is quite illustrative of it.
What they're doing is fundamentally right, but the way they talk about it or go about it is often quite wnky.
Simmo said it brilliantly higher up - would you rather we didn't have a plan at all? A really clear plan and sticking to it is what this club has needed for a long time, rather than flip flopping around. Oh we're a development club, but sure Mick you can bring Leon Balogun in.
Nourry is totally right - we only get out of this purgatory by greatly increasing revenue and we only do that with a new stadium (or big LR development) or significant, regular, large player sales. So his approach is fundamentally right. But constantly going around talking about your "project", and sticking a line in every signing piece saying "Christian showed me the project" is quite wnky. And if we go on a bad run of results you'll hear people start signing "we're not a fcking project" as has happened in the past.
Making a signing, fundamentally right. Telling people the signing is "adept at progressing the ball through zones two and three", quite wnky.
Having somebody ensuring joined up thinking through the age group teams so we haven't got an U18 coach playing 4-4-2 long ball football when the U21s and the first team don't play that way - fundamentally right. Calling that person the "head of methodology" - quite wnky.
Giving youngsters a first team chance, taking first teamers out of the firing line during an injury crisis, fundamentally right. Losing a cup game you were winning 2-0 because you want to performatively get some 16 year olds on, when you had other more established development squad players you could have used instead, quite wnky.
As with so much since Nourry took over, it's often a communication issue. Much of what Ben Williams said at the forum was interesting, and made sense. But what have people remembered? The wnky and patronising "sorry your favourite player wasn't available" comment. The rest of the content has been lost. It put people's backs up, and now all the players are injured again knives are out.
It's also why you see this divide between the younger demographic on social media and the older demographic on here. Comments like "progressing through zones two and three" play really well with the U30s, they see it as "elite ball knowledge". The over 40s think "oh shut up will ya".
This post has been edited by an administrator |
My problem with this post is you seem to be implying (apologies if I am misinterpreting) that these two aspects of the Nourry regime are of equal or similar importance: a) how Nourry and his team talk about running the club, and b) how he actually runs the club.
You seem happy (maybe even very happy) with the fundamentals, but you counter all these really important advances with in many cases quite trivial criticisms around PR, management speak, lack of communication, being a bit patronising to fans etc.
I get that the perceived comms failures irritate some, but turn it round a second. Lets imagine we had a PR genius, a mister charmer respected by fans (Les!) but someone who fundamentally wasn't taking the club in the right direction.
Of course we want our CEO to be perfect, but given a choice between competence or PR, I know which one I would go for. IF this "project" is successful, no one is going to be moaning about much of the stuff you highlight.
FInal point: I'm middle aged and yes I do find talk of "progressing through zones" a little comical, but I prefer to have people at the club who think in that way rather than the Gareth Ainsworth "boot it up to the big man" approach that belonged to a 1990s John Smith ad. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:54 - Aug 15 with 538 views | Northernr |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:37 - Aug 15 by Burnleyhoop |
I don’t see Levy or any other CEO coming out begging for forgiveness when they make mistakes.
What makes QPR fans, or you, believe they should have the privilege?
If Nourry or anyone else makes a mistake, the only one they have a responsibility to is their immediate boss. Go and apologise to Ruben and learn your lessons.
The constant need for transparency across everything in life is all well and good, but looks to be creating more anger and division than the good it was supposed to.
No need for the f*ck me sarcasm either. |
Again, where have I said they should "beg for forgiveness"? You're putting words in my mouth I haven't said, so yes fck me.
I'm just saying as a coms strategy it can bring more benefits to occasionally say "we got that wrong and learned from it" rather than making out like it was always the intention to sign Celar and Madsen last summer then Poku and Mbengue this summer or that the decision last October to start informing the fans about injuries wasn't a change of tack it was just that previously we didn't have injuries to report. These are obviously untrue, and so people distrust him on other things.
This is what I was talking about in the Plymouth report. This weird entrenchment of views. It's unhealthy.
I've said it perhaps might help if every now and again they were will to admit they made a mistake.
You've come straight in with SO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD APOLOGISE EVERY FIVE MINUTES AND BEG FOR YOUR ADMONISHMENT.
Errr, no.
Oh, I'm not sure we really got that January transfer window right.
SO YOU THINK HE TEMPTS THE JUNIOR R'S BACK TO HIS LAIR AND FEASTS ON THE YOUNG DO YOU?
It is nuts. Absolutely nuts.
Some people have entrenched themselves so deeply into Nourry being bad that he literally cannot do anything right and there's fault to be found in everything. Others have decided he's so wonderful that they're running round like The Simpsons chanting "the leader is good, the leader is great, I love the leader".
We've got to be able to offer legitimate criticism when it's justified, while also giving out credit when it's due.
If you'd told me before that Plymouth game on Tuesday what was going to happen I would have been able to tell you the ten Twitter and LFW accounts that would think it was shrewd, smart, not a problem, part of the plan and anybody who says otherwise is a dinosaur or old fart or mentally ill. Likewise I could tell you the ten accounts that would say it was an insult to the supporters and those that travelled should be refunded.
If we happen to lose 4-0 at Watford tomorrow I can tell you the accounts that will be straight on here saying "early days, always going to take time to settle, injuries, these young players need our support" and the ones that will be burning the place down.
That's not a healthy position to be in. We saw it under Paladini. It's not good for debate, it's not good for this website, it's not good for our support base. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:56 - Aug 15 with 514 views | Northernr |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:52 - Aug 15 by Stainrod |
My problem with this post is you seem to be implying (apologies if I am misinterpreting) that these two aspects of the Nourry regime are of equal or similar importance: a) how Nourry and his team talk about running the club, and b) how he actually runs the club.
You seem happy (maybe even very happy) with the fundamentals, but you counter all these really important advances with in many cases quite trivial criticisms around PR, management speak, lack of communication, being a bit patronising to fans etc.
I get that the perceived comms failures irritate some, but turn it round a second. Lets imagine we had a PR genius, a mister charmer respected by fans (Les!) but someone who fundamentally wasn't taking the club in the right direction.
Of course we want our CEO to be perfect, but given a choice between competence or PR, I know which one I would go for. IF this "project" is successful, no one is going to be moaning about much of the stuff you highlight.
FInal point: I'm middle aged and yes I do find talk of "progressing through zones" a little comical, but I prefer to have people at the club who think in that way rather than the Gareth Ainsworth "boot it up to the big man" approach that belonged to a 1990s John Smith ad. |
Well yeh the answer is in your first paragraph...
"implying (apologies if I am misinterpreting) that these two aspects of the Nourry regime are of equal or similar importance"
No I'm not. If QPR start selling players for £20m, winning games and progressing up the league at last then who cares if he sounds like a bit of a dick at the fan forum?
I'm just saying, in my opinion, this is one of the reasons why a section of the support are not having him - as shown by this thread and its headline.
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:00 - Aug 15 with 476 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:56 - Aug 15 by Northernr |
Well yeh the answer is in your first paragraph...
"implying (apologies if I am misinterpreting) that these two aspects of the Nourry regime are of equal or similar importance"
No I'm not. If QPR start selling players for £20m, winning games and progressing up the league at last then who cares if he sounds like a bit of a dick at the fan forum?
I'm just saying, in my opinion, this is one of the reasons why a section of the support are not having him - as shown by this thread and its headline.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Think that is very fair. | |
| |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:03 - Aug 15 with 452 views | Stainrod |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:37 - Aug 15 by GroveR |
Regime? Last I checked Les used to be the director of football, not the prime minister of Cambodia in the 70s.
The whole tenuous power balance of Manager/DoF/Board led to little to no accountability or ownership at QPR. I'd say mistakes of the past decade have been disproportionately put on Les (who made some, don't get me wrong), rather than at the feet of those higher up, which if you're one of those individuals, is exactly what you want. McLaren, Warbs and Beale being allowed to do as they pleased just cannot have been something any DoF welcomed.
The biggest benefit I can see of Nourry basically writing the theme tune and singing the theme tune (his "project") is any success will accrue to him. As will any failure. I pray to my signed Roy Wegerle shirt it's more of the former than the latter. |
I was using "Les" as shorthand for the group of people running the club at that time. I didn't realise I was making comparisons with Cambodia.
My point, btw, was not to sl*g off Les but to contrast what the club was doing then with what it is doing now.
I actually agree with you on accountability. Nourry absolutely has to own this, success or failure, which is one of the reasons why axing Marti was such a big call. | | | |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:06 - Aug 15 with 440 views | BrianMcCarthy |
On a personal note, my distrust of Nourry is not just because of a poor comms strategy, it's because I simply don't believe anything he says.
I hope that changes, simply because the CEO/DOF of our club should be trustworthy.
But he's only going to earn that over time. | |
| |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 12:14 - Aug 15 with 373 views | Stainrod |
| The ‘project’…please enlighten me? on 11:16 - Aug 15 by simmo |
"Mistakes are always going to happen"
Exactly! We know that better than anyone, we've seen them all before. If you're in your 20s and this is your first time doing this job - or let's be honest any actual job close to this magnitude - that might even mean lots of smaller mistakes that come with the territory. Again, THIS IS FINE. Just own them, take us with you. We all want the same thing, we want to be a part of it. We can help.
Don't create division where it doesn't need to be, especially when there's so much good happening and so much to feel quietly confident about. Currently it feels like everything good and bad comes with caveats and it doesn't need to be that way.
Edit; Also worth adding that this is a 2 way street. We know that any successful change will come with long term thinking, we know we have to be different to achieve something, we know the million things we've tried before haven't worked.... Maybe some feel Nourry is a bit of a dīck, but that might not mean he's not a good person for the job - especially with the way the game is now. I'm not going to blindly follow everything or not call out what I feel is bullshìt, but I am capable of focusing more on the good I see while we go through this situation, instead of putting all my energy into the negatives. [Post edited 15 Aug 11:31]
|
In an ideal world with ideal people I make you right.
But think about the human psychology for a minute.
Nourry is very bright and has got a big job very, very young.
And as is so often the case with people like that he is a curious mixture of arrogant and insecure. Like you I like people to apologise. I'm the kind of guy who apologises to the person who bumps into me at a supermarket. I don't think saying sorry makes you look weak, if anything the opposite.
But that is a realisation which often comes later in life.
We know Nourry isn't the finished article because if he was he would probably be CEO of a Premier League club. But we do know he learns as we see how he has changed transfer policy. So maybe in time he will learn humility and better comms skills.
But again, if you had to choose between a) humility and b) getting the majority of decisions right, which one would you prioritise? Besides, if we are looking for comparisons, I actually found Hoos the more arrogant and quite dismissive, but maybe that's just me... | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
