| Julien Stéphan 16:28 - Aug 23 with 34551 views | ted_hendrix |
I don't know what to say, do you? |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Julien Stéphan on 12:58 - Aug 24 with 3302 views | NorthantsHoop |
The whole set up at Rangers seems to revolve around some sort of cult mentality and it is looking more and more difficult to extricate our way out of it. |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 20:58 - Aug 24 with 2907 views | Doomr |
| Julien Stéphan on 19:43 - Aug 23 by Hunterhoop |
Ted, you and I have been on this board for a long time. Over 25 years for me. I remember your son, Charlie, on here, road dog (gave me a load of classic rock compilations), obviously Rob and Simon (even wrote for them for a bit on QPR.net), and more. I’ve been around the block and am not posting on nonsense for the sake of it.
Everything I posted (bar Steve Bould’s reporting line which I’m not sure on) is public knowledge. The job advert for the set piece coach was publicly available (Clive has linked to it). Nourry has confirmed publicly over the past 20 odd months those reporting lines. Some of the individuals themselves have confirmed it too.
This is our approach, determined and implemented by Nourry.
The “game model” was his much vaunted idea to have one formation and style of play across all age groups up to the first team to aid progression. He decided what it was to be, not Cifuentes. It involves playing out from the back. Last season, at the start of the season, it had its first outing. We won 2 in 17. Nourry wanted to sack Cifuentes but Ruben stepped in and prevented him. Cifuentes was given the ability to flex from the game model a bit. We went more pragmatic and ran up the league. Towards the end of the season we reverted to the game model and struggled. I don’t know whose choice that was, but given what had gone before and what went on at the end of the season, I can hazard a guess.
Either way, Nourry set the game model and the game model includes the formation and style of play. This season, we are back to the game model and playing out.
Stephan in one of his first interviews actually said “the club have hired me to have the team play a set way.” He is eyes wide open but he is following orders.
I know about the Walsh decision because a friend was told by a family friend of Walsh and this was before any pre season matches. Did Stephan really arrive and within a week decide to ditch last season’s first team keeper? I doubt it.
I have no doubt in the next week they’ll be a strong narrative pushed that the issue is how Stephan is setting up the team, that it is his call, etc, but it is baloney. He has nothing to do with signings and our signings (our army of wingers and 10s) are to play the game model.
Stephan has nothing to do with the fitness of the players. Little more than you or I. That is Ben Williams, who was recommended to the club by Nourry when he was at Retexo and before he became CEO. Williams reports to Nourry in his new, larger, broad remit of “Sporting Operations”.
It has all been made public before.
I know following Rangers this last decade has been trying at best and absolutely sh*te at worst. I know for the more experienced fan it has been easy to zone out, not pay too much close attention, and let it wash over you.
But everything I posted has been public knowledge if you look and listen closely enough.
Nourry and Williams (and Hoos) are the problem. Stephan might be a bad coach or a good coach; we don’t know yet and we may never find out.
Most of knew we had a very good manager in Cifuentes. The decision to axe him was Nourry’s and Nourry’s alone (they couldn’t stand each other). He has to own what comes next. Nobody else.
Ruben needs to act, and act quickly. |
This post is spot on. I just have to add something. Hoos is getting away with a lot here. He was publicly slagging Marti off last season before Marti was linked with anyone and before the gardening leave happened. Marti heard about it and the rest is history. It was beyond unprofessional. He and Nourry were thick as thieves in their mutual hatred of Marti - there was no way he could stay - they wanted him out. At which point the PR battle commenced. Nourry was also devoting a lot of time to certain players and I believe was attempting to turn the dressing room against Marti.
Hoos has been in this club enough time. He's been responsible for a lot including appointing CN. And he has Ruben’s ear. I’ve never been as pessimistic about the future of this club as I am now. I have no faith in anyone running it and the owners are absent. Don’t anyone think Hoos is innocent in all this. He isn’t. And my worry is if the axe eventually falls on CN, Hoos needs to go too.
But it may all be too late now anyway. |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 21:41 - Aug 24 with 2681 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Julien Stéphan on 19:21 - Aug 23 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Except that can't be 'it', can it?
For a team to be so outclassed in a league match, for 90 minutes, there is a lot, lot more wrong than just how the coach set it up.
The players are completely unfit - most of them injured, several not 'match fit' and some out there cramping up in the first half and in both calves after 80 mins.
They weren't second to everything today, they were about 6th/7th to everything. At one point Cook won a header from a goal kick and there were 4 Coventry players closer to the loose ball than the nearest QPR player... Who was walking / light jogging.
In addition to that and more subjectively, you have to wonder how happy this squad is with their coach / club. The body language throughout the entire team today was essentially non-existent. They didn't really look like the were hurting, just that they couldn't be bothered to play the rest of the game the second the second goal went in.
I don't know why it is or who is accountable... But it's looking to me like there is something rotten at QPR that is undermining anything technical or tactical we may try to implement.
Basically... it's fu<ked. |
Got to agree. The really concerning thing was not so much the team selection, but the complete lack of desire or intensity from literally everybody. No closing down, no tackling, no fight.
Complete capitulation. That is not a good sign and an indication of possible discontent in the ranks.
How does the coach turn that around and why is it happening? | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 22:15 - Aug 24 with 2544 views | plasmahoop |
I'm not sure the game model idea is necessarily wrong. I've got the impression that that's the kind of thing Brighton/Brentford, Swansea , Southampton did when they were better. And the director of football model, so to an extent it doesn't matter who the manager is ,so you change seamlessly from one to another.
If you rip the squad up every time you end up with a load of players the next manager doesn't want.
Trouble is, nourry doesn't know what he's doing, and has bought all these young, soft technical players. We need some grizzly hard bastards in there. You can have a desire to play decent football, but no successful team is ever soft as shite. And all the support staff don't seem to be adding much. I dread to think what salaries some of these people are on to produce this | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 22:34 - Aug 24 with 2452 views | daveB |
| Julien Stéphan on 22:15 - Aug 24 by plasmahoop |
I'm not sure the game model idea is necessarily wrong. I've got the impression that that's the kind of thing Brighton/Brentford, Swansea , Southampton did when they were better. And the director of football model, so to an extent it doesn't matter who the manager is ,so you change seamlessly from one to another.
If you rip the squad up every time you end up with a load of players the next manager doesn't want.
Trouble is, nourry doesn't know what he's doing, and has bought all these young, soft technical players. We need some grizzly hard bastards in there. You can have a desire to play decent football, but no successful team is ever soft as shite. And all the support staff don't seem to be adding much. I dread to think what salaries some of these people are on to produce this |
game model, what a load of old cobblers
The club have spent 15 years now talking about models and projets and pathways.
We had a short spell under Warbs where we raised standards with good senior pros like Pugh, Wallace, Austin and Johansen and tried to win the next football match in front of us which brought a good side and helped us to sell Eze for big money but we've since gone back to bigger picture, results don't matter we are a development club
So here we are, results don't matter, the aim of the club is to sell someone not to achieve anything on the pitch. It's painful to watch amd I'm fast losing interest in it, not been to a game yet this season due to holiday and not missed it at all, have no plans to do an away game anytime soon either.
For me the only way out of this is to take the hit, get relegated which will get these clowns out of the club and we can start again. If we manage to stay up this year which I'd still say is quite likely it will just be the same again next year |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 22:34 - Aug 24 with 2452 views | BerkoRanger |
I've been a QPR fan for over 55 yrs and reading this thread has been both unbelievable and heart breaking. Where does the club go from here, apart from downwards. | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 22:43 - Aug 24 with 2382 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Julien Stéphan on 17:32 - Aug 23 by Clive_Anderson |
I can't believe we stumbled into having a decent manager getting results in very difficult conditions last season and then just booted him out to get whatever this is instead. |
Things must be bad when me and you agree! |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 22:54 - Aug 24 with 2325 views | Dono77 |
The post above about the way MC was treated is spot on. The conduct of nourry and hoos was borderline criminal and smacked of no morals or any professionalism and they most definitely broke work place rules. How did they get away with it? I heard about Nourry meddling in team selection and being in the dressing room which undermined the manager. Imo MC had no choice but to look for other employment. Any other manager would have done the same. But ppl on here and other forums treated him like beale. Look where we are now. Ended up with a yes man who couldn't scare a 5 year old!! We are a laughing stock and our fans need to wake up to this carry on. Get Nourry out before its too late. | | | |
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| Julien Stéphan on 22:56 - Aug 24 with 2306 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Julien Stéphan on 19:04 - Aug 23 by Northernr |
Nah I’m sorry. You’ve been on here all summer talking about how exciting this all is, starting threads about how Nourry is cooking, hammering other posters who are concerned. You’re not chucking the head coach under the bus now.
Own it. |
It’s all well and good pointing fingers at every Tom, Dick and Harry behind the scenes, but how does that explain the way we started the first 20 minutes of both the Watford and Coventry games?
The team were so passive, lacking any sort of intent or aggression it was simply bizarre. 2-0 down in both games, heads go down and it’s all but game over.
No matter who steps across that white line, there is absolutely no excuse for not putting in 100% for the cause. Yes there are big issues with injuries and fitness and there needs to be accountability, but above all mentality, motivation and resilience are critical to just survive in this league and that’s for JS to sort.
Regardless of the team selection against Charlton, what I want to see is a strong response from the team and an absolute conviction of intent to win the game. Another half arsed, passive approach and Charlton will wipe the floor with us and that doesn’t bear thinking about. | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 00:03 - Aug 25 with 2204 views | Monkey_Roots |
If we can forget the name Nourry for the next paragraph…
I love that there was a plan to prioritise youth development with a view to making us sustainable. Passengers were ejected, a strategy was being implemented - young signings for our development squad, a pathway to the first team highlighted. I love that, it felt really great…
In theory, kinda like communism.
Let’s be honest, he didn’t invent the plan, it’s probably ‘the ideal’ for any perennial Championship club - buy young, develop, sell for profit. It’s a sound plan, but you need to know how to implement it, which he obviously doesn’t - in fact, I think there might even be a case for the reverse to be a possibility - try to rush it, or not combine youth with experience, and you just might end up with youngsters bereft of confidence, in the wrong environment unable to express themselves, they simply can’t show what they are capable of, and cannot prove their worth… no sell-on value, and therefore no long-term sustainability for the club.
I always try to see the good because I’m desperate for it to work out, but I think he’s fúcked us. I don’t think it’s intentional - he’s not evil - and it certainly doesn’t do his personal ambitions or credibility much good if it all goes tits up, but if it goes wrong for him, then it goes wrong for all of us - I don’t think he’s up to it, and if we continue to let him do it his way, then the damage will be catastrophic. I HATE to say this, as I really don’t want us to go back to backroom, behind-the-scenes turmoil, months of uncertainty, a new plan, a new strategy - but he has to go. |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 06:45 - Aug 25 with 1995 views | sevenhoop |
| Julien Stéphan on 21:41 - Aug 24 by Burnleyhoop |
Got to agree. The really concerning thing was not so much the team selection, but the complete lack of desire or intensity from literally everybody. No closing down, no tackling, no fight.
Complete capitulation. That is not a good sign and an indication of possible discontent in the ranks.
How does the coach turn that around and why is it happening? |
The second para here 100%. And that i find the biggest worry. Under Marti it was clear that the players were playing for him and each other. On Saturday it was the complete opposite. Very worrying signs of a dressing room in disarray. And some not taking ownership or caring enough |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 06:49 - Aug 25 with 1972 views | FDC |
| Julien Stéphan on 06:45 - Aug 25 by sevenhoop |
The second para here 100%. And that i find the biggest worry. Under Marti it was clear that the players were playing for him and each other. On Saturday it was the complete opposite. Very worrying signs of a dressing room in disarray. And some not taking ownership or caring enough |
Something I've been thinking about is that the classic scenario where players are discontent with the manager and down tools to get him the sack doesn't quite work here, if the players identify the problem as being Nourry - not saying that this is the case, but in a hypothetical situation where it were the case, what do they do? Because getting the manager the sack is relatively easy, it happens all the time. But forcing a change at CEO level is much harder. |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 08:28 - Aug 25 with 1885 views | dm97 |
| Julien Stéphan on 06:49 - Aug 25 by FDC |
Something I've been thinking about is that the classic scenario where players are discontent with the manager and down tools to get him the sack doesn't quite work here, if the players identify the problem as being Nourry - not saying that this is the case, but in a hypothetical situation where it were the case, what do they do? Because getting the manager the sack is relatively easy, it happens all the time. But forcing a change at CEO level is much harder. |
In Europe where these structures are far more common, you often seen Sporting Directors sacked alongside, in place of, or after a failed managerial appointment. The problem we have is that our owners won’t (or don’t want to) do that because it’s very convenient for them to have a Hoos/Les/Nourry there who can be the lightning rod for criticism and be left to deal with everything so they don’t have to.
The irony of the structure we are trying to run with is it requires good ownership to a) hire the right people who can get on with the job and b) know when to step in and take the wheel (and how to do that). This ownership can do neither a or b.
Sack the coaches, sack Nourry, sack Belk - the owners are still going to be there making the same mistakes over and over. |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 08:42 - Aug 25 with 1791 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Julien Stéphan on 06:49 - Aug 25 by FDC |
Something I've been thinking about is that the classic scenario where players are discontent with the manager and down tools to get him the sack doesn't quite work here, if the players identify the problem as being Nourry - not saying that this is the case, but in a hypothetical situation where it were the case, what do they do? Because getting the manager the sack is relatively easy, it happens all the time. But forcing a change at CEO level is much harder. |
Has Cook not recently stated that the “club” has done as much as possible over recent years to get things moving in the right direction. New training facilities, improved the approach to the development squad, (supposed) high level performance teams, decent recruitment within the confines of our budget, etc, etc.
How can you say with any sort of conviction that the players have downed tools because of Nourry?
Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
The manner of the defeat was a real worry. The manner of the response to it could be quite telling. | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:03 - Aug 25 with 1709 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Julien Stéphan on 08:42 - Aug 25 by Burnleyhoop |
Has Cook not recently stated that the “club” has done as much as possible over recent years to get things moving in the right direction. New training facilities, improved the approach to the development squad, (supposed) high level performance teams, decent recruitment within the confines of our budget, etc, etc.
How can you say with any sort of conviction that the players have downed tools because of Nourry?
Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
The manner of the defeat was a real worry. The manner of the response to it could be quite telling. |
He didn’t say the players downed tools. He said that wouldn’t work here. | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:04 - Aug 25 with 1695 views | FDC |
| Julien Stéphan on 08:42 - Aug 25 by Burnleyhoop |
Has Cook not recently stated that the “club” has done as much as possible over recent years to get things moving in the right direction. New training facilities, improved the approach to the development squad, (supposed) high level performance teams, decent recruitment within the confines of our budget, etc, etc.
How can you say with any sort of conviction that the players have downed tools because of Nourry?
Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
The manner of the defeat was a real worry. The manner of the response to it could be quite telling. |
I mean, I literally said "if the players identify the problem as being Nourry - not saying that this is the case, but in a hypothetical situation where it were the case" | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:15 - Aug 25 with 1660 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:04 - Aug 25 by FDC |
I mean, I literally said "if the players identify the problem as being Nourry - not saying that this is the case, but in a hypothetical situation where it were the case" |
But the inference was there. I just find that odd. | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:24 - Aug 25 with 1603 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:15 - Aug 25 by Burnleyhoop |
But the inference was there. I just find that odd. |
A big cause of agro on this forum is giving perceived inference more credence than the literal words IMO. [Post edited 25 Aug 9:25]
| | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:24 - Aug 25 with 1602 views | DannytheR |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:15 - Aug 25 by Burnleyhoop |
But the inference was there. I just find that odd. |
Who sets the culture of an organisation? |  | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:35 - Aug 25 with 1551 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:24 - Aug 25 by DannytheR |
Who sets the culture of an organisation? |
The man at the top. What’s your point? | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:45 - Aug 25 with 1516 views | DannytheR |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:35 - Aug 25 by Burnleyhoop |
The man at the top. What’s your point? |
That players this apathetic and directionless on the pitch are only a symptom of a much bigger problem with the whole culture of the club - which as you say, comes from the top. | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:54 - Aug 25 with 1489 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:24 - Aug 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
A big cause of agro on this forum is giving perceived inference more credence than the literal words IMO. [Post edited 25 Aug 9:25]
|
Are you now accusing me of trying to cause aggro?
Certainly not my intention. My views differ to most on this forum, but it’s just my views and if they differ, what’s the problem? Just trying to bring some balance to the argument.
My impression of FDC’s posts are that he has a vivid imagination and fixation around Nourry. Could be wrong, but just my opinion, no big deal.
I have no particular view of Nourry other than he has made some good decisions and some bad ones and will continue to do so. Just like every single CEO of most football clubs.
My biggest concern right now is more around JS and his ability to motivate what players we do have available, to step across the line on Saturday and put in a fighting display. | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:56 - Aug 25 with 1481 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:54 - Aug 25 by Burnleyhoop |
Are you now accusing me of trying to cause aggro?
Certainly not my intention. My views differ to most on this forum, but it’s just my views and if they differ, what’s the problem? Just trying to bring some balance to the argument.
My impression of FDC’s posts are that he has a vivid imagination and fixation around Nourry. Could be wrong, but just my opinion, no big deal.
I have no particular view of Nourry other than he has made some good decisions and some bad ones and will continue to do so. Just like every single CEO of most football clubs.
My biggest concern right now is more around JS and his ability to motivate what players we do have available, to step across the line on Saturday and put in a fighting display. |
'Are you now accusing me of trying to cause aggro?'
No, but another great example of the dangers of inference. | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 10:07 - Aug 25 with 1391 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:45 - Aug 25 by DannytheR |
That players this apathetic and directionless on the pitch are only a symptom of a much bigger problem with the whole culture of the club - which as you say, comes from the top. |
Don’t disagree Danny. The culture of any club or business is absolutely paramount.
Which comes back to my previous concern. Why such an insipid, gutless performance on Saturday?
It could just be a one off, or it could indeed run much deeper. But it’s too early to tell.
There has been significant change across the entire club and culture is not established overnight. It takes time, patience and perseverance. Lots of it, over months and years. Been there and done it personally.
We have seen some worrying signs, but for me, not wholly unexpected. The club and all its employees have to react, dig deep and stick together. It’s too early to burn the whole thing to the ground, but by Christ, we need something positive to cling on to. | | | |
| Julien Stéphan on 10:28 - Aug 25 with 1282 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Julien Stéphan on 09:56 - Aug 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
'Are you now accusing me of trying to cause aggro?'
No, but another great example of the dangers of inference. |
Then just state your point without hiding behind inference. | | | |
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