| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 01:18 - Sep 29 with 234900 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Who will be watching? First one kicks off in 24 hours time.
The Democrats have pulled Joe back from his campaign trail recently to get him prepared, so hopefully it will be a decent exchange.
Unfortunately they don’t seem to have great confidence as they have spent the last month looking for any dirt they can dig up so Joe can use if he gets stuck.
It’s no coincidence that this vote influencing Facebook algorithm story is being shamelessly and inaccurately made into a race issue on the eve of the debates. So transparent and disingenuous, it’s a shame politics has come to this on this level where black people are being used in this way to score political points. I would be furious if I was them, but it does seem a lot of people are not falling for this one and calling it out for what it is.
People finally seem to be getting wise to this political race baiting which is refreshing to see.
It’s also telling that in the week of the debate they try and paint Trump as a tax evasion offender. I think that’s what they wanted the tax returns to show, they seem to have got annoyed when it turns out his tax returns were fine in accordance to what his companies profits were - but decided to run with it anyway. Any news is good news in their mind as it’s another thing Joe can use when in a tricky spot.
But I hope the discussions remain political and doesn’t turn into some form of gossip peddling reality TV episode.
Although I think there should be some kind of drinking game involved if it does turn that way, how many times Biden completely loses his thread of thought and blurts out “I mean, think about it...” you have to take a shot. 
I will be watching with great interest anyway.
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 08:51 - Nov 14 with 1267 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 08:47 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
Strange, I’ve not seen you condemn any Democrat gatherings.
The experts disagree with you regarding voting. |
I’ve not really been part of that part of the conversation (I think...)
Are the experts saying it’s more covid secure to vote in person than by mail? |  | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 08:54 - Nov 14 with 1263 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 08:51 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
I’ve not really been part of that part of the conversation (I think...)
Are the experts saying it’s more covid secure to vote in person than by mail? |
I’m sure I would be able to find an anti-Trump/Republican comment of yours regarding mask wearing or social distancing. It’s all the rage.
The experts say it is perfectly safe to vote in person if social distancing is in place and masks are worn. I agree with them, as do most people with a handle on reality.
The Covid excuse was peddled to encourage a system that benefits the Democrats. It really is that simple. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:01 - Nov 14 with 1256 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 08:54 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
I’m sure I would be able to find an anti-Trump/Republican comment of yours regarding mask wearing or social distancing. It’s all the rage.
The experts say it is perfectly safe to vote in person if social distancing is in place and masks are worn. I agree with them, as do most people with a handle on reality.
The Covid excuse was peddled to encourage a system that benefits the Democrats. It really is that simple. |
It may be perfectly safe but it can be as safe, can it? That’s the point.
Again, if I had the choice of standing in line then entering a building that goodness knows how many have been in before, or voting from home when I know that the outcome ( a vote) will be the same I know what I’d choose.
It should be safe to do most activities if mitigations are in place but in the real world people don’t follow the rules.
I’ve spent the last 8 months writing risk assessments that it followed would make my place of work and surrounding area covid safe if folks stick to them.
They don’t. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:06 - Nov 14 with 1250 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:01 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
It may be perfectly safe but it can be as safe, can it? That’s the point.
Again, if I had the choice of standing in line then entering a building that goodness knows how many have been in before, or voting from home when I know that the outcome ( a vote) will be the same I know what I’d choose.
It should be safe to do most activities if mitigations are in place but in the real world people don’t follow the rules.
I’ve spent the last 8 months writing risk assessments that it followed would make my place of work and surrounding area covid safe if folks stick to them.
They don’t. |
If that was your attitude then you would never leave the house, pandemic or not.
Why go to work when you may get mugged or run over by a car when you can stay at home? Why go and see your friends when Skype will do, you may get attacked by a stray dog. So while it may be safe, it’s still not the safest way to do these things.... If it’s safe it’s safe.
This is a very important election. Mail in ballots are notoriously inaccurate.
If you are in the high risk category then the rules could be bent for that on request, I could see some logic there. Universal mail in ballots and encouraging half the population to partake in mail in balloting however is utterly laughable. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:09 - Nov 14 with 1246 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:06 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
If that was your attitude then you would never leave the house, pandemic or not.
Why go to work when you may get mugged or run over by a car when you can stay at home? Why go and see your friends when Skype will do, you may get attacked by a stray dog. So while it may be safe, it’s still not the safest way to do these things.... If it’s safe it’s safe.
This is a very important election. Mail in ballots are notoriously inaccurate.
If you are in the high risk category then the rules could be bent for that on request, I could see some logic there. Universal mail in ballots and encouraging half the population to partake in mail in balloting however is utterly laughable. |
If I don’t go to work I don’t get paid. If I Skype friends it’s not the same experience.
If I vote by post or in person the outcome is the same. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:11 - Nov 14 with 1245 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:09 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
If I don’t go to work I don’t get paid. If I Skype friends it’s not the same experience.
If I vote by post or in person the outcome is the same. |
But it isn’t, hence the point.
If it was the same outcome then it would just be the way. It isn’t for a reason.
Mail in ballots have a way higher rejection rate and universal mail in balloting is open to a whole host of error, malpractice and fraud.
If it wasn’t then we wouldn’t be having this discussion now, a discussion I was having long long long before the election on this very forum. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:18 - Nov 14 with 1235 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:11 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
But it isn’t, hence the point.
If it was the same outcome then it would just be the way. It isn’t for a reason.
Mail in ballots have a way higher rejection rate and universal mail in balloting is open to a whole host of error, malpractice and fraud.
If it wasn’t then we wouldn’t be having this discussion now, a discussion I was having long long long before the election on this very forum. |
I’ll willingly concede that postal voting results in a greater margin of error due to human and fraudulent error.
I’ve seen nothing yet to convince me that this is on a scale that materially affects the result of this election. If the outcome is fair, then I believe postal voting was a mitigation worth taking.
If it’s proved that dems were smart enough to generate just enough fraudulent votes to just get over the line in particular swing states, whilst not gaining enough for house control then I’ll have got it wrong. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:24 - Nov 14 with 1229 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:18 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
I’ll willingly concede that postal voting results in a greater margin of error due to human and fraudulent error.
I’ve seen nothing yet to convince me that this is on a scale that materially affects the result of this election. If the outcome is fair, then I believe postal voting was a mitigation worth taking.
If it’s proved that dems were smart enough to generate just enough fraudulent votes to just get over the line in particular swing states, whilst not gaining enough for house control then I’ll have got it wrong. |
But why would you see it, you don’t live there. With elections such as this, once the seal is broken there is nothing to say if that ballot is legal or not. We have multiple examples of postal workers coming forward saying batches of ballots were systematically backdated so the then illegal ballots would then be counted. There is no amount of audits or recounts that would remedy that.
Having “enough” fraudulent and malpractice to make a difference really should not be the talking point. Any is not acceptable. When the fraud and malpractice was committed nobody was to know what difference it would make. The reality is we may never know the extent either. People love to quote loaded stats showing previous fraud, but the point of fraud it that it goes undetected. They won’t be accurate by definition.
So when the experts stated it was safe to go to the polls (of which it was, as nearly a hundred million did) then for the integrity of the election, that should have happened. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:30 - Nov 14 with 1224 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:24 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
But why would you see it, you don’t live there. With elections such as this, once the seal is broken there is nothing to say if that ballot is legal or not. We have multiple examples of postal workers coming forward saying batches of ballots were systematically backdated so the then illegal ballots would then be counted. There is no amount of audits or recounts that would remedy that.
Having “enough” fraudulent and malpractice to make a difference really should not be the talking point. Any is not acceptable. When the fraud and malpractice was committed nobody was to know what difference it would make. The reality is we may never know the extent either. People love to quote loaded stats showing previous fraud, but the point of fraud it that it goes undetected. They won’t be accurate by definition.
So when the experts stated it was safe to go to the polls (of which it was, as nearly a hundred million did) then for the integrity of the election, that should have happened. |
I think we’ll both be happy if lessons are learnt from this, then.
I look forward to the final result. If it’s overturned legally to trump then of course I’ll respect it. On the other hand if the court cases end up being spurious thane there should be some recourse.
It’s tricky for trump at the moment as it seems funding is drying up - he’s going to find it hard to admit he’s skint. More funding emails make him look desperate- he’s not going to like that either.
Strange times. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:37 - Nov 14 with 1221 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:30 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
I think we’ll both be happy if lessons are learnt from this, then.
I look forward to the final result. If it’s overturned legally to trump then of course I’ll respect it. On the other hand if the court cases end up being spurious thane there should be some recourse.
It’s tricky for trump at the moment as it seems funding is drying up - he’s going to find it hard to admit he’s skint. More funding emails make him look desperate- he’s not going to like that either.
Strange times. |
There won’t be anything spurious, these are sworn affidavits by workers, voters and watchers. Every single complaint needs to be investigated, but as I said, voter fraud isn’t something very easy to prove.
How can you prove that your bosses were backdating batches of ballots? You can’t really. Anything proven to be false should of course have some recourse, but common sense suggests anything thrown out will simply be because there isn’t enough there to unequivocally say something happened.
It’s extremely unlikely they will be successful. I just think it’s a shame that so many people have genuine concerns over a vote that was conducted and handled so badly. I can only hope that in 2024 the Republicans have enough power to block any moves to want to do it again.
I have very little doubt that under a normal balloting system (10% mail in, 90% in person), if Trump runs (which I believe he will) he will win by a landslide. It’s going to be a very uninspiring period for America. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 10:13]
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:57 - Nov 14 with 1197 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:37 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
There won’t be anything spurious, these are sworn affidavits by workers, voters and watchers. Every single complaint needs to be investigated, but as I said, voter fraud isn’t something very easy to prove.
How can you prove that your bosses were backdating batches of ballots? You can’t really. Anything proven to be false should of course have some recourse, but common sense suggests anything thrown out will simply be because there isn’t enough there to unequivocally say something happened.
It’s extremely unlikely they will be successful. I just think it’s a shame that so many people have genuine concerns over a vote that was conducted and handled so badly. I can only hope that in 2024 the Republicans have enough power to block any moves to want to do it again.
I have very little doubt that under a normal balloting system (10% mail in, 90% in person), if Trump runs (which I believe he will) he will win by a landslide. It’s going to be a very uninspiring period for America. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 10:13]
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25% postal voting in 2016. Seemed fine then. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:08 - Nov 14 with 1184 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:57 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
25% postal voting in 2016. Seemed fine then. |
What do you deem fine?
Nearly a million votes were rejected. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:18 - Nov 14 with 1165 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:08 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
What do you deem fine?
Nearly a million votes were rejected. |
Fine in that winning margins were finer with no such campaign to overturn the result.
Reps trying to frame this as an assault on democracy as opposed to simply overturn the result is laughable. Improvements to the voting system would just be a happy byproduct.
If we want democracy to flourish, changes that result in fewer votes cast in the future isn’t exactly brilliant.
A cynic would say that reducing opportunities to vote helps republicans... | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:30 - Nov 14 with 1152 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:18 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
Fine in that winning margins were finer with no such campaign to overturn the result.
Reps trying to frame this as an assault on democracy as opposed to simply overturn the result is laughable. Improvements to the voting system would just be a happy byproduct.
If we want democracy to flourish, changes that result in fewer votes cast in the future isn’t exactly brilliant.
A cynic would say that reducing opportunities to vote helps republicans... |
Nearly a million votes cast that are rejected on errors is never “fine”. In some districts we saw a 100% mail in vote rejection rate. That’s unacceptable to conduct a large part of a vote like that.
It is an assault on democracy. People being sent ballots that have not asked for one who then get mass media manipulation to cast a vote they wouldn’t necessarily do... is not democracy. The democrat nominee being so uninspiring there was a fear not many would be enthused to go out and vote or request a ballot - so they get sent one anyway, is an assault on democracy.
Everyone has an opportunity to vote that wants to vote. Most elections are shaped by the will of the people as they feel strongly enough to go out and cast that vote. This year has seen an election run in large part by apathy and manipulation.
Of course mail in ballots don’t favour the Republicans. They have pollsters, media and social media all doing everything they can to sway the apathetic that would not normally vote. But now they get told how to and who for.
You should only be able to vote if you show up to do so or request it in advance. That’s common sense. Otherwise it heavily favours the democrats considering there are 6% more registered Democrats in America.
People should feel enthused to vote, those that can’t be bothered to vote shouldn’t get a say on how the rest of the people have to live for the next 4 years. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 10:35]
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:31 - Nov 14 with 1150 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:32 - Nov 13 by Professor |
What is beyond parody are over 150,000 new cases in the US reported today and more than 60,000 hospitalised. And the hundreds who sadly died after non-distancesd,
No mask Trump rallies. Greatest failure in leadership, period. Spin it as you wish. The Pfizer vaccine was not part of ‘Warp Speed’. There may be one announced shortly that is. Whatever Johnson’s failures, his true support for vaccine development has been unequivocal.
And Nate ‘the moron’ Cohn got Georgia pretty spot on.
Better a moron in the NYT payroll than scratching around here. |
Please provide the data that shows that the 150,000 new cases are from the Trump Rallies and so are the 60,000 that were hospitalised. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:36 - Nov 14 with 1147 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:31 - Nov 14 by A_Fans_Dad |
Please provide the data that shows that the 150,000 new cases are from the Trump Rallies and so are the 60,000 that were hospitalised. |
They had to leave their MAGA hats at the door.
There is a pile now 150,000 strong and it’s referred to as the second Mount Rushmore. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:37 - Nov 14 with 1145 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 09:01 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
It may be perfectly safe but it can be as safe, can it? That’s the point.
Again, if I had the choice of standing in line then entering a building that goodness knows how many have been in before, or voting from home when I know that the outcome ( a vote) will be the same I know what I’d choose.
It should be safe to do most activities if mitigations are in place but in the real world people don’t follow the rules.
I’ve spent the last 8 months writing risk assessments that it followed would make my place of work and surrounding area covid safe if folks stick to them.
They don’t. |
If you thought that there was a high chance that your vote would be lost, or even deliberatly thrown away would you still send it through the post? | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:39 - Nov 14 with 1143 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:30 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
Nearly a million votes cast that are rejected on errors is never “fine”. In some districts we saw a 100% mail in vote rejection rate. That’s unacceptable to conduct a large part of a vote like that.
It is an assault on democracy. People being sent ballots that have not asked for one who then get mass media manipulation to cast a vote they wouldn’t necessarily do... is not democracy. The democrat nominee being so uninspiring there was a fear not many would be enthused to go out and vote or request a ballot - so they get sent one anyway, is an assault on democracy.
Everyone has an opportunity to vote that wants to vote. Most elections are shaped by the will of the people as they feel strongly enough to go out and cast that vote. This year has seen an election run in large part by apathy and manipulation.
Of course mail in ballots don’t favour the Republicans. They have pollsters, media and social media all doing everything they can to sway the apathetic that would not normally vote. But now they get told how to and who for.
You should only be able to vote if you show up to do so or request it in advance. That’s common sense. Otherwise it heavily favours the democrats considering there are 6% more registered Democrats in America.
People should feel enthused to vote, those that can’t be bothered to vote shouldn’t get a say on how the rest of the people have to live for the next 4 years. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 10:35]
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I didn’t say 1m rejected ballots was fine, I pointed out that it was accepted in 2016. That’s a statement of fact.
I’m actually really enjoying watching this play out. Court cases and recounts are rightly making sure the final result is correct, changes will be made to strengthen the process, and with every lie/rejected case/rep turning on trump his legacy is further tarnished. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:44 - Nov 14 with 1138 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 08:13 - Nov 14 by Professor |
That’s because of social distancing and masks. Not packing 1000s in. Leaving then in the cold. It’s not sensationalism. You are the worst for that. Some BS off Twitter. Look at this video. All look at me , look how clever I am. The vaccine was developed by the small German Biotech and taken up for full development by Pfizer. Development did not use US federal funds.
Your issue is you are blind to any alternative but your own view
You have pedalled rubbish for too long. |
Interesting that you would push the misleading statement that Pfizer did not use US Federal Funds.
Pfizer is a participant in the US initiative Warpspeed, exactly as President Trump stated.
Or have you not bothered to read the later reports and fact checks? | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:45 - Nov 14 with 1138 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:39 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
I didn’t say 1m rejected ballots was fine, I pointed out that it was accepted in 2016. That’s a statement of fact.
I’m actually really enjoying watching this play out. Court cases and recounts are rightly making sure the final result is correct, changes will be made to strengthen the process, and with every lie/rejected case/rep turning on trump his legacy is further tarnished. |
Of course it is accepted, what else are we expected to do?
What I would hope was that lessons were learned from that, but they weren’t. History shows that this method is inaccurate and it was pushed to become even more widespread.
Like I said, recounts prove little. Recounts will eliminate some of the errors but not all. A large chunk of this case is workers backdating batches - this isn’t something that will be picked up in a recount and poll watchers were not allowed to watch the original time... so we will never know.
There will always be a cloud over this election and the results will always be questioned, that is down to how it was handled - quite needlessly. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 11:05 - Nov 14 with 1120 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:39 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
I didn’t say 1m rejected ballots was fine, I pointed out that it was accepted in 2016. That’s a statement of fact.
I’m actually really enjoying watching this play out. Court cases and recounts are rightly making sure the final result is correct, changes will be made to strengthen the process, and with every lie/rejected case/rep turning on trump his legacy is further tarnished. |
Actually a simple recount is not adequate, especially a recount by the same counters.
What is required to try and discount fraud is an open Audit, ie forensic analysis of each vote by an independent body scrutinised by parties from all sides.
What would be even better would be if the process was videod and broadcast as it happened.
What the recount should show is any corruption by the voting machines, but only if the count is actually audited.
Currently in Georgia they are only allowing 1 Republican observer who has to try and cover 10 counting tables, obviously an impossibility. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 14:08 - Nov 14 with 1068 views | Groo |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 08:51 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
I’ve not really been part of that part of the conversation (I think...)
Are the experts saying it’s more covid secure to vote in person than by mail? |
Nobody has. |  |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 19:20 - Nov 14 with 1023 views | DJack |
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| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 19:37 - Nov 14 with 1017 views | majorraglan |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 10:44 - Nov 14 by A_Fans_Dad |
Interesting that you would push the misleading statement that Pfizer did not use US Federal Funds.
Pfizer is a participant in the US initiative Warpspeed, exactly as President Trump stated.
Or have you not bothered to read the later reports and fact checks? |
As far as I can see, Pfizer never took funding for R and D but they did agree to sell about $2bn work of vaccines if it worked out and was licensed by the FDA. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 19:55 - Nov 14 with 1010 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 14:08 - Nov 14 by Groo |
Nobody has. |
Nobody has what? | |
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