| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 01:18 - Sep 29 with 234917 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Who will be watching? First one kicks off in 24 hours time.
The Democrats have pulled Joe back from his campaign trail recently to get him prepared, so hopefully it will be a decent exchange.
Unfortunately they don’t seem to have great confidence as they have spent the last month looking for any dirt they can dig up so Joe can use if he gets stuck.
It’s no coincidence that this vote influencing Facebook algorithm story is being shamelessly and inaccurately made into a race issue on the eve of the debates. So transparent and disingenuous, it’s a shame politics has come to this on this level where black people are being used in this way to score political points. I would be furious if I was them, but it does seem a lot of people are not falling for this one and calling it out for what it is.
People finally seem to be getting wise to this political race baiting which is refreshing to see.
It’s also telling that in the week of the debate they try and paint Trump as a tax evasion offender. I think that’s what they wanted the tax returns to show, they seem to have got annoyed when it turns out his tax returns were fine in accordance to what his companies profits were - but decided to run with it anyway. Any news is good news in their mind as it’s another thing Joe can use when in a tricky spot.
But I hope the discussions remain political and doesn’t turn into some form of gossip peddling reality TV episode.
Although I think there should be some kind of drinking game involved if it does turn that way, how many times Biden completely loses his thread of thought and blurts out “I mean, think about it...” you have to take a shot. 
I will be watching with great interest anyway.
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:04 - Nov 14 with 1355 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 21:54 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
Yes, I am. And that evidence can be wrong, hence the use of inverted commas. |
It is rarely ''wrong'', but often it is deemed not enough.
Perjury convictions, which is the offence for a false affidavit is rare. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:09 - Nov 14 with 1348 views | Groo |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 21:54 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
Yes, I am. And that evidence can be wrong, hence the use of inverted commas. |
Especially when those making the claims are impartial or even being paid to make the claim.
As has been said many times, there is no evidence of any fraud at the scale required to upset the election.
No doubt there were fraud attempts for various reasons by both sides and the scale of postal voting this election has had the system cracking at the seams. It would be good for all the States to look at how they do postal votes in future elections.
It maybe beneficial for them all to get together and agree one common method.
The percentage of rejected votes is similar to previous years, the democrats did not kick up this much fuss at the last election even though the gap was much closer.
Most of the rejected votes were nothing to with fraud either, mainly forgot to sign, too late, etc. |  |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:11 - Nov 14 with 1344 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:04 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
It is rarely ''wrong'', but often it is deemed not enough.
Perjury convictions, which is the offence for a false affidavit is rare. |
Wrong. Misguided. Partisan. Pejorative. Not enough. Take you’re pick.
If you know anything about civil or criminal proceedings you’ll know that eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. I could use some current republican examples but you’d say I’d copied and pasted so I won’t bother. |  | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:13 - Nov 14 with 1342 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:09 - Nov 14 by Groo |
Especially when those making the claims are impartial or even being paid to make the claim.
As has been said many times, there is no evidence of any fraud at the scale required to upset the election.
No doubt there were fraud attempts for various reasons by both sides and the scale of postal voting this election has had the system cracking at the seams. It would be good for all the States to look at how they do postal votes in future elections.
It maybe beneficial for them all to get together and agree one common method.
The percentage of rejected votes is similar to previous years, the democrats did not kick up this much fuss at the last election even though the gap was much closer.
Most of the rejected votes were nothing to with fraud either, mainly forgot to sign, too late, etc. |
You can state is as many times as makes you feel comfortable, but it won't make it any truer.
There is not enough evidence that you have seen. But as I said they aren't going to be showing Groo on Swansea Independent. The Supreme Court will deem what is and isn't enough.
As I also told you % of rejected ballots doesn't mean anything. That is based on what was found to be illegitimate not what was illegitimate, and what was illegitimate is probably a long way off being able to be detected as such i.e. postal backdating.
Why votes are rejected is irrelevant. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 22:14]
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:45 - Nov 14 with 1318 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:13 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
You can state is as many times as makes you feel comfortable, but it won't make it any truer.
There is not enough evidence that you have seen. But as I said they aren't going to be showing Groo on Swansea Independent. The Supreme Court will deem what is and isn't enough.
As I also told you % of rejected ballots doesn't mean anything. That is based on what was found to be illegitimate not what was illegitimate, and what was illegitimate is probably a long way off being able to be detected as such i.e. postal backdating.
Why votes are rejected is irrelevant. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 22:14]
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So the million rejected ballots in 2016 was irrelevant? | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:49 - Nov 14 with 1314 views | Groo |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:45 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
So the million rejected ballots in 2016 was irrelevant? |
Don't mun, your not allowed to have an opinion.
Your opinion after all bears no weight, his opinion of course is god given fact. | |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:52 - Nov 14 with 1311 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:45 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
So the million rejected ballots in 2016 was irrelevant? |
The reason why they were rejected is irrelevant. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:53 - Nov 14 with 1309 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:49 - Nov 14 by Groo |
Don't mun, your not allowed to have an opinion.
Your opinion after all bears no weight, his opinion of course is god given fact. |
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it's rare that people give them - they give other people's... which is why they cannot debate the subject in any depth. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 22:56]
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:59 - Nov 14 with 1294 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:52 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
The reason why they were rejected is irrelevant. |
Of course it’s relevant. If you want a fair election you need to know why votes (rightly or wrongly) aren’t being counted.
You said yourself that lessons weren’t learnt from 2016 which I agree is unfortunate.
If Republicans were were briefed that postal voting would result in fraudulent behaviour then they shouldn’t have tried to suppress that way of voting. Daft on their part!? | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:02 - Nov 14 with 1291 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 22:59 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
Of course it’s relevant. If you want a fair election you need to know why votes (rightly or wrongly) aren’t being counted.
You said yourself that lessons weren’t learnt from 2016 which I agree is unfortunate.
If Republicans were were briefed that postal voting would result in fraudulent behaviour then they shouldn’t have tried to suppress that way of voting. Daft on their part!? |
It is irrelevant to the discussion of the method being reliable. You or Groo, cant remember which posted the amounts of rejected ballots and then went on to say the vast majority of which wasn't due to fraud.
I made the point that why they were rejected is irrelevant to the discussion over the method and its reliability. Fraud is not something that is easily detected, backdating a batch of ballots for example is not detectable at all - so the figure of rejected ballots will only be a fraction of ballots that should not be counted - which is ridiculously too high anyway.
Hence why voting in person, once deemed safe, should have been the way. Which is now why we are having such scenes and will do for quite some time. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:12 - Nov 14 with 1280 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:02 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
It is irrelevant to the discussion of the method being reliable. You or Groo, cant remember which posted the amounts of rejected ballots and then went on to say the vast majority of which wasn't due to fraud.
I made the point that why they were rejected is irrelevant to the discussion over the method and its reliability. Fraud is not something that is easily detected, backdating a batch of ballots for example is not detectable at all - so the figure of rejected ballots will only be a fraction of ballots that should not be counted - which is ridiculously too high anyway.
Hence why voting in person, once deemed safe, should have been the way. Which is now why we are having such scenes and will do for quite some time. |
Safe, but not as safe as posting by post.
I’ll say again, given the choice, which is sensible in current circumstances, I’d vote by post.
If someone says my vote may not get there, I’d vote early. If the same people said that early submissions couldn’t be counted till last, then tried to stop the count I’d be mighty annoyed.
If those same people couldn’t decide depending on state whether to stop the vote or count the vote, I’d assume they were up to something. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:12 - Nov 14 with 1279 views | Dr_Winston |
Do we reckon that once the various States attorneys catch up with him Trump will do his time like a man, try to do a runner to Moscow or top himself Robert Maxwell stylee? |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:18 - Nov 14 with 1271 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:12 - Nov 14 by Dr_Winston |
Do we reckon that once the various States attorneys catch up with him Trump will do his time like a man, try to do a runner to Moscow or top himself Robert Maxwell stylee? |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:21 - Nov 14 with 1265 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:12 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
Safe, but not as safe as posting by post.
I’ll say again, given the choice, which is sensible in current circumstances, I’d vote by post.
If someone says my vote may not get there, I’d vote early. If the same people said that early submissions couldn’t be counted till last, then tried to stop the count I’d be mighty annoyed.
If those same people couldn’t decide depending on state whether to stop the vote or count the vote, I’d assume they were up to something. |
We have been through that. If that was the attitude then nobody should leave their house pandemic or not.
Everyone should work remotely in case they get run over on the way to work, friends gatherings should be by Skype only and plastic knives should be the order of the day instead of normal knives. Any televised match should ban fans as its safer to watch at home than go to the game as you may trip and fall on the concourse.
All the above instances are safe to do so in reality, but there is always a safer way. It isn't really the point. Once you have a fair level of safety then the practicality of the action should be paramount and should not be sacrificed. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:24 - Nov 14 with 1262 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:12 - Nov 14 by Dr_Winston |
Do we reckon that once the various States attorneys catch up with him Trump will do his time like a man, try to do a runner to Moscow or top himself Robert Maxwell stylee? |
Nah. He’s hanging on to raise funds and agree some kind of immunity.
The fact that the peaceful transition of power and pandemic response is on hold is not important to him. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:25 - Nov 14 with 1260 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:24 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
Nah. He’s hanging on to raise funds and agree some kind of immunity.
The fact that the peaceful transition of power and pandemic response is on hold is not important to him. |
There is not a peaceful transition of power? Where are you hearing that from?
What is he wanting immunity for?
Who has delayed the pandemic response?
It sounds like you are listening to the nonsense media again. [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 23:26]
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:28 - Nov 14 with 1251 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:21 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
We have been through that. If that was the attitude then nobody should leave their house pandemic or not.
Everyone should work remotely in case they get run over on the way to work, friends gatherings should be by Skype only and plastic knives should be the order of the day instead of normal knives. Any televised match should ban fans as its safer to watch at home than go to the game as you may trip and fall on the concourse.
All the above instances are safe to do so in reality, but there is always a safer way. It isn't really the point. Once you have a fair level of safety then the practicality of the action should be paramount and should not be sacrificed. |
I disagree. It’s outcome driven.
All the examples you give wouldn’t result in the same experience or outcome. Voting does.
A better example against voting would be food shopping. I reckon it’s safe to go to Tesco’s and do my shop - I’m not worried about it. However, I can get my stuff shopping online for delivery or collection.
It’s safer, so I’ll do that. I still get my bread and milk either way - same outcome. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:34 - Nov 14 with 1239 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:28 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
I disagree. It’s outcome driven.
All the examples you give wouldn’t result in the same experience or outcome. Voting does.
A better example against voting would be food shopping. I reckon it’s safe to go to Tesco’s and do my shop - I’m not worried about it. However, I can get my stuff shopping online for delivery or collection.
It’s safer, so I’ll do that. I still get my bread and milk either way - same outcome. |
But we have just both agreed it doesn't and the stats show that. Mail in balloting is notoriously inaccurate and in some districts have 100% rejection rate, so considering it's outcome driven - it's not even close to being the same.
Your shop analogy doesn't hold weight. If going to the shop personally resulted in 99.99% correct items picked up as opposed to 80% with delivery - if you were set a challenge where the outcome was paramount for accuracy... going and shopping in person should be the deciding factor.
Democracy over convenience every single day of the week. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:39 - Nov 14 with 1233 views | majorraglan |
In the U.K. we are being told that we should be working from home if it’s possible to minimise the potential for infection etc, it makes sense for those who want to have a postal vote to have one. | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:41 - Nov 14 with 1231 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:39 - Nov 14 by majorraglan |
In the U.K. we are being told that we should be working from home if it’s possible to minimise the potential for infection etc, it makes sense for those who want to have a postal vote to have one. |
The vote wasn't in the UK, it was in the States and they were told it is perfectly safe to vote in person.
Working 8 hours a day in an office and voting in person is not remotely comparable. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:42 - Nov 14 with 1230 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:34 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
But we have just both agreed it doesn't and the stats show that. Mail in balloting is notoriously inaccurate and in some districts have 100% rejection rate, so considering it's outcome driven - it's not even close to being the same.
Your shop analogy doesn't hold weight. If going to the shop personally resulted in 99.99% correct items picked up as opposed to 80% with delivery - if you were set a challenge where the outcome was paramount for accuracy... going and shopping in person should be the deciding factor.
Democracy over convenience every single day of the week. |
If the outcome was getting fed then it’s exactly the same result.
You’re moving away fro pm your argument. You said that voting in person was safe. I said not as safe as postal voting.
Agree or disagree? | | | |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:46 - Nov 14 with 1223 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:42 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
If the outcome was getting fed then it’s exactly the same result.
You’re moving away fro pm your argument. You said that voting in person was safe. I said not as safe as postal voting.
Agree or disagree? |
Disagree, completely.
The goal of the election is never just ''to receive some votes'' though, is it.
The goal of an election is to have an accurate and democratic result. Having a large chunk of the process be notoriously inaccurate is not fulfilling the brief.
I am not moving away from anything, we have addressed the safety issue. There is always safer ways to do everything, but the outcome suffers. Which is why people meet up with friends instead of meeting on Skype, go to football matches instead of watching on TV and light their home with electricity as opposed to battery lights.
All have a similar outcome and safer than the original - but none fulfill the brief. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:51 - Nov 14 with 1219 views | Gwyn737 |
I don’t want to put words in your mouth, so...
Are you saying that it’s as safe for 100 million+ people to leave their homes and travel to a polling station, line up for hours to vote, than send in a postal ballot in the middle of a global pandemic? [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 23:55]
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:56 - Nov 14 with 1214 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:51 - Nov 14 by Gwyn737 |
I don’t want to put words in your mouth, so...
Are you saying that it’s as safe for 100 million+ people to leave their homes and travel to a polling station, line up for hours to vote, than send in a postal ballot in the middle of a global pandemic? [Post edited 14 Nov 2020 23:55]
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Of course, why would we disagree with the experts?
You also said it was safe, but felt you think the election should sacrifice accuracy to be even safer. Which isn't the goal of a democratic vote. | |
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| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 00:29 - Nov 15 with 1180 views | Gwyn737 |
| 🇺🇸Presidential debate round 1 - “Matchday thread”🇺🇸 on 23:56 - Nov 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
Of course, why would we disagree with the experts?
You also said it was safe, but felt you think the election should sacrifice accuracy to be even safer. Which isn't the goal of a democratic vote. |
By that logic, lockdowns are pointless then. No point in closing shops, sports stadiums, gatherings etc.? They should be safe with Covid restrictions so it should be be fine?
You’re usually pretty measured so I can’t get my head around this argument. Really? Staying at home is as safe as going out?
Does the same idea apply to the common cold or flu? | | | |
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