What have learned ? 20:35 - Aug 2 with 11501 views | connell10 | From our friendlies? Well I'd say we need to get our strikers fit ASAP. |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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What have learned ? on 12:43 - Aug 3 with 2290 views | Gus_iom | I was listening to Perry Groves speaking about preseason friendlies this week. He was saying they are just about getting fit and avoiding injury, and that you can't read too much into them. He cited Norwich having an awful preseason and then finishing 3rd on the top-flight. Leicester being held by Mansfield and then winning the premiership. |  |
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What have learned ? on 12:46 - Aug 3 with 2277 views | aston_hoop |
What have learned ? on 12:43 - Aug 3 by Gus_iom | I was listening to Perry Groves speaking about preseason friendlies this week. He was saying they are just about getting fit and avoiding injury, and that you can't read too much into them. He cited Norwich having an awful preseason and then finishing 3rd on the top-flight. Leicester being held by Mansfield and then winning the premiership. |
My reference for some reason, is that defeat under Warbs against Boreham Wood and then a couple of weeks later we beat Stoke in the first game of the league season. Admitedly, we did add an actual striker in Jordan Hugill, plus had the likes of Eze, BOS. But still, that was an awful game and I was certain we were going down after that friendly. |  |
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What have learned ? on 12:50 - Aug 3 with 2217 views | vanrrrr |
What have learned ? on 11:04 - Aug 3 by stevec | It’s really disturbing. If we keep approaching this sport in an unprofessional manner, in effect almost inviting it to go wrong, at some point the match day crowd are going to have had enough. |
I’ve had enough and the season not begun! Treating it as a development league is going to bite us. So while giving Larkeche etc 10 games is fine in theory i look at the fixtures and we need points on the board early as Nov/Dec ate horrid Preston analysts not worth their wage if they do not have a report for next week where the first two bullets are 1. target the Left and 2. force them to play centrally through midfield I got a bad feeling about this!!! [Post edited 3 Aug 12:52]
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What have learned ? on 12:52 - Aug 3 with 2194 views | Gus_iom |
What have learned ? on 12:46 - Aug 3 by aston_hoop | My reference for some reason, is that defeat under Warbs against Boreham Wood and then a couple of weeks later we beat Stoke in the first game of the league season. Admitedly, we did add an actual striker in Jordan Hugill, plus had the likes of Eze, BOS. But still, that was an awful game and I was certain we were going down after that friendly. |
We've got actual strikers, mate. We're just not allowed to see them. They may be nocturnal, or something. |  |
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What have learned ? on 12:52 - Aug 3 with 2199 views | Northernr |
What have learned ? on 12:35 - Aug 3 by 7374Ranger | Re larkeche not getting much help from Dembele, I suggest trying to bring Saito back, or playing Smyth instead of the latter. Either that, or sign a more reliable left back. We have learnt next to nothing it seems because the CM and CF weaknesses have not been addressed either. Another lower bottom half season is almost certain unless some transfers are made over the next 4 weeks. |
What happened to start with yesterday was the 14 Carvalho was able to just go and stand in 40 yards of clear space in front of our defence where a normal team would have what we call a 'midfield'. He was just freely available to receive a forward pass 35 yards out from goal in every attack. We countered this after a while be sending Larkeche charging infield from left back to engage him. So every time Brentford passed into Carvalho Larkeche would sprint in from left back to try and shut that down. That, however, then of course left a huge space at left back and with Dembele further ahead of him down that side Brentford were able to just do as they pleased. If I was doing Preston's video analysis for next week I'd certainly be giving that a red hot crack. |  | |  |
What have learned ? on 13:43 - Aug 3 with 1952 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
What have learned ? on 09:58 - Aug 3 by Northernr | That a team which had known issues at FB, CM and CF still has issues at FB, CM and CF having spent the summer so far doing nothing to address its known issues at FB, CM and CF. |
Yes, I'm sure there are irons in the fire but I'm fed up with us starting the season half-cooked, just as I'm fed up with chucking away cup matches or having no ambition to be promoted. The messaging at the forum last week was deja vu - we've got a five-year plan, focused on developing young players...just like Les had a decade ago. We're about as good at achieving our five-year plans as Stalin, including using dodgy stats like the one a few years ago about how many development players had played for the first team, which meant very little in reality. |  | |  |
What have learned ? on 13:51 - Aug 3 with 1922 views | kensalriser |
What have learned ? on 12:43 - Aug 3 by Gus_iom | I was listening to Perry Groves speaking about preseason friendlies this week. He was saying they are just about getting fit and avoiding injury, and that you can't read too much into them. He cited Norwich having an awful preseason and then finishing 3rd on the top-flight. Leicester being held by Mansfield and then winning the premiership. |
That's all true but at the same time it's hard to deny this pre-season hasn't revealed in stark relief the problems with this squad, and they won't magically disappear next Saturday. |  |
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What have learned ? on 14:02 - Aug 3 with 1877 views | Rsole |
What have learned ? on 12:50 - Aug 3 by vanrrrr | I’ve had enough and the season not begun! Treating it as a development league is going to bite us. So while giving Larkeche etc 10 games is fine in theory i look at the fixtures and we need points on the board early as Nov/Dec ate horrid Preston analysts not worth their wage if they do not have a report for next week where the first two bullets are 1. target the Left and 2. force them to play centrally through midfield I got a bad feeling about this!!! [Post edited 3 Aug 12:52]
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PNE researchers, look away, there is NOTHING to see here.... If 1 and 2 fail: 3. = Press us.You'll get the ball back soon enough. 4. = Let us try and pass out from the back. See above. 5. = Keep the ball more than 5ft in the air - until you see the eyes of our back 4, then see 1. 6. = Play a back 1 - no need to mark one of our 'strikers' |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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What have learned ? on 14:08 - Aug 3 with 1853 views | Rsole |
What have learned ? on 12:43 - Aug 3 by Gus_iom | I was listening to Perry Groves speaking about preseason friendlies this week. He was saying they are just about getting fit and avoiding injury, and that you can't read too much into them. He cited Norwich having an awful preseason and then finishing 3rd on the top-flight. Leicester being held by Mansfield and then winning the premiership. |
I'm sure when you play in a team like he did, it probably was that simple - even if most of them played hungover, they were decent enough to still win many of their games. Unfortunately we are not - plus we somehow manage to pick up injuries in pre-season. As for fitness, how many players had cramp yesterday ? I know 90 minutes is a long time for some people but a professional footballer with a full pre-season shouldn't be getting cramp one game before the competitive start. As Sints said on commentary, he only had cramp once - and that was on the bus home. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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What have learned ? on 14:12 - Aug 3 with 1837 views | Rsole |
What have learned ? on 12:52 - Aug 3 by Gus_iom | We've got actual strikers, mate. We're just not allowed to see them. They may be nocturnal, or something. |
They only come out at night The lean and hungry type Nothing is new, I've seen them here (once) before Watching and waiting Ooh, they're sitting with you (in the stands), and their eyes are on the door So many have paid to see What you think you're getting goals for free The coach is wild, a french guy tamed by Christian Nourry Money's the matter If you're in it for goals, you ain't gonna get too far [Post edited 3 Aug 14:12]
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| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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What have learned ? on 14:33 - Aug 3 with 1760 views | baz_qpr | I guess what I am struggling with is that against Stevenage we lined up played quite an exciting tactical hybrid 4-3-3 without the ball 3-4-3 with the ball seemed to know what we were doing, lots of cross field balls and you thought right we are off here. Since then it's been either 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 wide open at times and very like Cifuentes when he tried to open up. I would have expected yesterday to sit deep and tight and play on the counter based on the line up. It was all very strange tbh maybe they trained all week for Celar to start, I dont know. Maybe we will see something very different next week. |  | |  |
What have learned ? on 14:47 - Aug 3 with 1724 views | Hunterhoop |
What have learned ? on 14:33 - Aug 3 by baz_qpr | I guess what I am struggling with is that against Stevenage we lined up played quite an exciting tactical hybrid 4-3-3 without the ball 3-4-3 with the ball seemed to know what we were doing, lots of cross field balls and you thought right we are off here. Since then it's been either 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 wide open at times and very like Cifuentes when he tried to open up. I would have expected yesterday to sit deep and tight and play on the counter based on the line up. It was all very strange tbh maybe they trained all week for Celar to start, I dont know. Maybe we will see something very different next week. |
It seems very clear to me that the “game model” is this 4231 with a genuine attacking midfielder at 10. After Cifuentes left it was always going to be telling which of the approaches employed under him continued and which we don’t see again. It seems to me that the pragmatic 433 (really a 4141) with 3 genuine CMs in Varane as the holder, and Field and Morgan (sometimes Colback) as the other 2 has disappeared. It now looks like one of that central 3 is clearly pushed on much higher leaving a 2 man central midfield. We tried this under Cifuentes but it was this shape that had us struggle early last season and then drop away in the Spring. Chair at 10, whilst attractive, and something we’d all love to work, will require him to be incredibly disciplined off the ball. When we went with a 10 last year, especially early on, it was Andersen or Madsen. Of everyone, I think Chair could make it work, but it is very high risk…especially if we don’t have Field and Varane in the 2 man pairing. It’s all well and good wanting to play beautiful free-flowing, expansive, attacking football. It’s another thing entirely executing it successfully and not being beaten up by the opposition. Even harder, you’d think, if you’re operating with the “3rd lowest playing budget in the league.” I hope it works, and Chair is the best way to make it work, I think. But it is not without risks. Again, these are amplified with Dembele and Poku on the wings (and not a Smyth). |  | |  |
What have learned ? on 14:57 - Aug 3 with 1661 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
What have learned ? on 14:47 - Aug 3 by Hunterhoop | It seems very clear to me that the “game model” is this 4231 with a genuine attacking midfielder at 10. After Cifuentes left it was always going to be telling which of the approaches employed under him continued and which we don’t see again. It seems to me that the pragmatic 433 (really a 4141) with 3 genuine CMs in Varane as the holder, and Field and Morgan (sometimes Colback) as the other 2 has disappeared. It now looks like one of that central 3 is clearly pushed on much higher leaving a 2 man central midfield. We tried this under Cifuentes but it was this shape that had us struggle early last season and then drop away in the Spring. Chair at 10, whilst attractive, and something we’d all love to work, will require him to be incredibly disciplined off the ball. When we went with a 10 last year, especially early on, it was Andersen or Madsen. Of everyone, I think Chair could make it work, but it is very high risk…especially if we don’t have Field and Varane in the 2 man pairing. It’s all well and good wanting to play beautiful free-flowing, expansive, attacking football. It’s another thing entirely executing it successfully and not being beaten up by the opposition. Even harder, you’d think, if you’re operating with the “3rd lowest playing budget in the league.” I hope it works, and Chair is the best way to make it work, I think. But it is not without risks. Again, these are amplified with Dembele and Poku on the wings (and not a Smyth). |
Good informative post as usual but the last line is my question if you or someone has the answer . Is Smyth simply being pushed down the pecking order or injured or something else going on. Not the best player at QPR but he gives his all and counter attacks with pace helps to get us up the field etc and apart from his crossing and shooting valuable to us IMO. Is JS waiting to spring Smyth next Saturday with Celear and Frey maybe or is he going to be a bench warmer this year |  | |  |
What have learned ? on 14:59 - Aug 3 with 1654 views | R_from_afar |
What have learned ? on 13:43 - Aug 3 by Wegerles_Stairs | Yes, I'm sure there are irons in the fire but I'm fed up with us starting the season half-cooked, just as I'm fed up with chucking away cup matches or having no ambition to be promoted. The messaging at the forum last week was deja vu - we've got a five-year plan, focused on developing young players...just like Les had a decade ago. We're about as good at achieving our five-year plans as Stalin, including using dodgy stats like the one a few years ago about how many development players had played for the first team, which meant very little in reality. |
While I totally agree that we need to start the season - indeed, all seasons - well prepared, you need to take into account that the S & P rules mean that the only alternative to "a five-year plan, focused on developing young players" is a do or die attempt to get promoted immediately by bringing in quite a few good quality, established Championship players. A very high calibre manager might also be required. I think we'd need to go up at the first time of asking to avoid crippling S & P sanctions - as repeat offenders, we'd be for the high jump - but another issue might be how difficult it is to attract that sort of personnel to a relatively small and unglamorous club like ours. Don't get me wrong, I, like most on here, am worn out by season after season with no real hope of promotion or a cup, not to mention unnerving flirtations with relegation, but there are no easy solutions. Sadly . |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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What have learned ? on 15:03 - Aug 3 with 1613 views | Rsole |
What have learned ? on 14:33 - Aug 3 by baz_qpr | I guess what I am struggling with is that against Stevenage we lined up played quite an exciting tactical hybrid 4-3-3 without the ball 3-4-3 with the ball seemed to know what we were doing, lots of cross field balls and you thought right we are off here. Since then it's been either 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 wide open at times and very like Cifuentes when he tried to open up. I would have expected yesterday to sit deep and tight and play on the counter based on the line up. It was all very strange tbh maybe they trained all week for Celar to start, I dont know. Maybe we will see something very different next week. |
That feels like a lifetime ago now - but it looked really promising at the time. I don’t think Stevenage were particularly good but the same type of performance from us on Saturday would be quite welcome. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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What have learned ? on 15:05 - Aug 3 with 1604 views | JamesB1979 | My concern is I think Stephan may be thinking Field or Varane and then Madsen, Chair, Dembele, Poku and a striker. He’s said he wants Chair in the middle and he seems to really like Madsen. Personally I don’t see that working in the championship but trust in the new man I guess. |  | |  |
What have learned ? on 15:22 - Aug 3 with 1543 views | Boston |
What have learned ? on 14:08 - Aug 3 by Rsole | I'm sure when you play in a team like he did, it probably was that simple - even if most of them played hungover, they were decent enough to still win many of their games. Unfortunately we are not - plus we somehow manage to pick up injuries in pre-season. As for fitness, how many players had cramp yesterday ? I know 90 minutes is a long time for some people but a professional footballer with a full pre-season shouldn't be getting cramp one game before the competitive start. As Sints said on commentary, he only had cramp once - and that was on the bus home. |
Good point re Sints. I was a fairly athletic young man, played footie, ran everything from 100 yd sprints to cross country, involved in a myriad of other sports, and the only cramp I ever experienced was an American psychobilly band. |  |
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What have learned ? on 15:25 - Aug 3 with 1530 views | Boston | Oh yeah, what have I learned so far? We are a mid-table team that will finish mid-table. |  |
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What have learned ? on 16:52 - Aug 3 with 1382 views | Gus_iom |
What have learned ? on 15:22 - Aug 3 by Boston | Good point re Sints. I was a fairly athletic young man, played footie, ran everything from 100 yd sprints to cross country, involved in a myriad of other sports, and the only cramp I ever experienced was an American psychobilly band. |
Did you 'experience ' lux interior or poison ivy? I think we should be told. |  |
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What have learned ? on 17:32 - Aug 3 with 1317 views | 7374Ranger |
What have learned ? on 14:08 - Aug 3 by Rsole | I'm sure when you play in a team like he did, it probably was that simple - even if most of them played hungover, they were decent enough to still win many of their games. Unfortunately we are not - plus we somehow manage to pick up injuries in pre-season. As for fitness, how many players had cramp yesterday ? I know 90 minutes is a long time for some people but a professional footballer with a full pre-season shouldn't be getting cramp one game before the competitive start. As Sints said on commentary, he only had cramp once - and that was on the bus home. |
I recall players used to get cramp playing in the FA Cup finals at Wembley, otherwise they were very rare. Loftus Rd is no Wembley. |  | |  |
What have learned ? on 19:32 - Aug 3 with 1112 views | numptydumpty |
What have learned ? on 17:32 - Aug 3 by 7374Ranger | I recall players used to get cramp playing in the FA Cup finals at Wembley, otherwise they were very rare. Loftus Rd is no Wembley. |
Well according to our now present Director of Performance players today cover 50% more ground than 15 years ago.... Am guessing is a fact, but some players seem to rarely move at all, so find that stat a bit of a stretch..... During league games, the team in the lead, seems to have all eleven players get cramping attacks throughout the entire last half an hour of the game also..... Funny that !!!!! |  |
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What have learned ? on 20:16 - Aug 3 with 1002 views | Rsole | Even the keepers get cramp in those games ! |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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What have learned ? on 20:45 - Aug 3 with 933 views | Match82 |
What have learned ? on 14:08 - Aug 3 by Rsole | I'm sure when you play in a team like he did, it probably was that simple - even if most of them played hungover, they were decent enough to still win many of their games. Unfortunately we are not - plus we somehow manage to pick up injuries in pre-season. As for fitness, how many players had cramp yesterday ? I know 90 minutes is a long time for some people but a professional footballer with a full pre-season shouldn't be getting cramp one game before the competitive start. As Sints said on commentary, he only had cramp once - and that was on the bus home. |
Sure I read somewhere that top division players now run 2x as far as top division players back in the 80s. I could however have completely made that up. |  | |  |
What have learned ? on 20:45 - Aug 3 with 932 views | derbyhoop |
What have learned ? on 12:52 - Aug 3 by Northernr | What happened to start with yesterday was the 14 Carvalho was able to just go and stand in 40 yards of clear space in front of our defence where a normal team would have what we call a 'midfield'. He was just freely available to receive a forward pass 35 yards out from goal in every attack. We countered this after a while be sending Larkeche charging infield from left back to engage him. So every time Brentford passed into Carvalho Larkeche would sprint in from left back to try and shut that down. That, however, then of course left a huge space at left back and with Dembele further ahead of him down that side Brentford were able to just do as they pleased. If I was doing Preston's video analysis for next week I'd certainly be giving that a red hot crack. |
The obvious answer is to stop relying on Dembele to do the defensive work from left midfield. Options include: 1. Play somebody else on left of midfield, especially.g. Vale, Madsen or Smyth. 2. Don't play Poku AND dembele in the same team, allowing Kaddy to play on the right in front of Dunne. 3. Coaching |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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What have learned ? on 20:48 - Aug 3 with 907 views | Jevlar | I think I’ve learnt that we’re skint and stuck in bottom third purgatory that is the Championship but increasingly have the punching power of a top third league one team. Unless we can buy low, sell high, we can’t afford nice things and will forever be stuck around 16th Interested to see what JS can do compared to Marti but bloody hell, not replacing the key areas of issue Sorry if it sounds negative and also stating the obvious to most of you on here! Hope we get a left back, striker, centre half and Hayden in. Imagine we’ll get 1 or 2 of those because that’s just where we are. Tough gig for Julien. [Post edited 3 Aug 20:50]
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