| Julien Stephan - Word of warning 09:42 - Aug 17 with 25502 views | Markofthegrove |
I listened to his post match presser from the club and he mentioned fatigue towards the end of the game.
After the team he picked on Tuesday and how that went down, he really should be more careful with his words as this fanbase will eat him alive, they won't accept many more stunts like that. |  | | |  |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 14:31 - Aug 18 with 2941 views | flynnbo |
Wow! |  | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 14:38 - Aug 18 with 2857 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
I love a bit of lemon cake personally, but I am a fat fck who gets out of breath wringing out a dish cloth, not a professional footballer. |  | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 14:42 - Aug 18 with 2803 views | colinallcars |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 14:38 - Aug 18 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I love a bit of lemon cake personally, but I am a fat fck who gets out of breath wringing out a dish cloth, not a professional footballer. |
The Fulham team usually has breast of guinea fowl under-glass and a rattling good burgundy for lunch. |  | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 14:47 - Aug 18 with 2775 views | loftupper |
As with most things these days there appears to be a vast amount of theories based on very little information. Assumptions are being made based on who certain roles report to without knowing what happens day to day, it does seem in keeping with the coaches can come and go approach with less impact up the structure when they do go. It does not seem unreasonable to me that they work closely with Stephan and come up with routines that suit the situations Stephans approach creates.
I am just happy that there seems to be a club wide strategy for once, whether it works or not remains to be seen. | | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 14:52 - Aug 18 with 2741 views | QPRMinty |
Some posters don't like the fact that the likes of Varane and Kone didn't start on Saturday.
Substitutes are a precious commodity - you have to be sparing with them, as you never know what injuries or cards may occur during the game.
If you start two players that you know absolutely WILL have to be subbed at some point (probably 60 minutes, or so), just because they're not fully match-fit, you're taking the unnecessary risk of not having the subs you need to affect the game late on. Not to mention the risk to the unfit players themselves, as they'll be expected to play a lot more minutes as a starter than as a sub.
So it makes absolute sense to have your least fit players as the ones to come on later in the game, (a) to give them minutes towards fitness, and (b) to ensure you have all your subs available for injuries, replacing players on cards, and to affect the game later on.
The same could apply to Esquerdinha, as well. He may be fit, but up against 'men' for 90 minutes is a big ask as a youngster, especially as a full-back. That could be why he wasn't a starter (?).
It's just where we are at the moment, with the injury and fitness situation... [Post edited 18 Aug 17:18]
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| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 14:56 - Aug 18 with 2702 views | CroydonCaptJack |
Refried beans aren't actually refried in the first pace, they are just well fried. It is our translation of the term that is confusing.
Not a lot of people know that. |  |
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| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 15:17 - Aug 18 with 2565 views | BristolR |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 14:56 - Aug 18 by CroydonCaptJack |
Refried beans aren't actually refried in the first pace, they are just well fried. It is our translation of the term that is confusing.
Not a lot of people know that. |
My brain is pretty well fried after reading this thread…unbelievable Jeff! |  | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:12 - Aug 18 with 2331 views | BklynRanger |
I'm confused about how involved it's become with Ben Williams, and I include myself in those rants.
2 seasons ago, when his approach apparently worked I bought into that idea. I don't see the Ainsworth to Marti switch having maintained what was already a low amount of injuries. I still feel this idea of building up fitness into the season had a lot to do with it, more than Marti coming in and being all Spanish. The big question there, as raised well above, being if that is the right tactic for a Championship football season.
Anyway, I think JS is aware of where the pressure is to perform and where it isn't. League - very much yes, League Cup - absolutely not, FA cup - would be lovely but don't jeopardise the league. |  | | |
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| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:27 - Aug 18 with 2236 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:12 - Aug 18 by BklynRanger |
I'm confused about how involved it's become with Ben Williams, and I include myself in those rants.
2 seasons ago, when his approach apparently worked I bought into that idea. I don't see the Ainsworth to Marti switch having maintained what was already a low amount of injuries. I still feel this idea of building up fitness into the season had a lot to do with it, more than Marti coming in and being all Spanish. The big question there, as raised well above, being if that is the right tactic for a Championship football season.
Anyway, I think JS is aware of where the pressure is to perform and where it isn't. League - very much yes, League Cup - absolutely not, FA cup - would be lovely but don't jeopardise the league. |
I don't agree that it worked two years ago either, Bklyn.
We had injuries at the beginning of that season, but fitness is not just about availabilty anyway, it's about strength, speed and stamina as well, and to my eye at least we lacked badly in each of these departments as we tumbled to the bottom of the division and stayed there for the Autumn and Winter.
I thought our fitness was shocking. |  |
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| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:28 - Aug 18 with 2219 views | NewYorkRanger |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:12 - Aug 18 by BklynRanger |
I'm confused about how involved it's become with Ben Williams, and I include myself in those rants.
2 seasons ago, when his approach apparently worked I bought into that idea. I don't see the Ainsworth to Marti switch having maintained what was already a low amount of injuries. I still feel this idea of building up fitness into the season had a lot to do with it, more than Marti coming in and being all Spanish. The big question there, as raised well above, being if that is the right tactic for a Championship football season.
Anyway, I think JS is aware of where the pressure is to perform and where it isn't. League - very much yes, League Cup - absolutely not, FA cup - would be lovely but don't jeopardise the league. |
I know this one has been done to death BUT......surely professional footballers should be able to handle 2 games a week? They most certainly could before Sky invented football.
Or has sports science, fitness, the pace of the game etc moved on so much that it's just not feasible for the players to play so frequently any more?
Binning off the cup to protect league status is a ludicrous idea for a club like QPR in the first place in my opinion - and it hasn't exactly worked well for us as a general rule.
Game's gone as many have said |  |
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| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:30 - Aug 18 with 2203 views | BklynRanger |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:27 - Aug 18 by BrianMcCarthy |
I don't agree that it worked two years ago either, Bklyn.
We had injuries at the beginning of that season, but fitness is not just about availabilty anyway, it's about strength, speed and stamina as well, and to my eye at least we lacked badly in each of these departments as we tumbled to the bottom of the division and stayed there for the Autumn and Winter.
I thought our fitness was shocking. |
Well that's fair in terms of the many other aspects, but didn't we get towards the latter third of the season and have fewer than normal injuries? I thought that happened. | | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:32 - Aug 18 with 2164 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:30 - Aug 18 by BklynRanger |
Well that's fair in terms of the many other aspects, but didn't we get towards the latter third of the season and have fewer than normal injuries? I thought that happened. |
Ya, I think that part of the claim is fair from the club. | |
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| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:38 - Aug 18 with 2119 views | BklynRanger |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:32 - Aug 18 by BrianMcCarthy |
Ya, I think that part of the claim is fair from the club. |
You see Brian, you see?!
A focused Williams can keep our various arthritic gimps hobbling along till the end of the season. And imagine what he might do with younger ones who can run around?
But focus is the key. That is still to be confirmed as far as I'm concerned. | | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:43 - Aug 18 with 2082 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:38 - Aug 18 by BklynRanger |
You see Brian, you see?!
A focused Williams can keep our various arthritic gimps hobbling along till the end of the season. And imagine what he might do with younger ones who can run around?
But focus is the key. That is still to be confirmed as far as I'm concerned. |
Well, the problem is they were still only fit for half a season.
But, like you, I'm not sure if there's any science behind this anyway. I vaguely remember someone at the club explaining that we were following this theory but that doesn't mean that it's valid or that they even believe in it - it could just simply be something to say when under pressure.
Edit - sp. check. [Post edited 18 Aug 17:44]
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| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:46 - Aug 18 with 2053 views | daveB |
May 3rd was our last competitve game before August 9th, a break of 98 days between games, for fatigue to be an excuse is comical |  | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 19:45 - Aug 18 with 1785 views | 7374Ranger |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 17:28 - Aug 18 by NewYorkRanger |
I know this one has been done to death BUT......surely professional footballers should be able to handle 2 games a week? They most certainly could before Sky invented football.
Or has sports science, fitness, the pace of the game etc moved on so much that it's just not feasible for the players to play so frequently any more?
Binning off the cup to protect league status is a ludicrous idea for a club like QPR in the first place in my opinion - and it hasn't exactly worked well for us as a general rule.
Game's gone as many have said |
Well said, the 3rd paragraph especially. I think that cup loss has upset a lot of fans more than losing to Watford did. | | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 20:38 - Aug 18 with 1693 views | Rangersw12 |
The problem with have is the same as last season , the game model doesn't work with these players and until the manager realises that and changes ( like MC did ) we will continue to struggle.
I actually really dislike the club at the moment and if it wasn't for a day out with my mates would have sacked it off months ago | | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 21:00 - Aug 18 with 1637 views | 1JD |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 11:11 - Aug 18 by francisbowles |
Excellent post Hunter.
Can I ask some related but maybe naive questions?
If we want to build up their fitness gradually, why don't we shorten their close season break? They must have had eight or nine weeks off. Would it not be better to let them have six weeks and bring them in for fitness building, conditioning and ball skills?
You still don't have to get them to peak fitness but they would surely start better and pick up less muscle injuries before the first game; Hopefully achieving better results and an improvement in the all important confidence. |
Ben Williams appears to be deploying a common fitness strategy seen in cycling - where his expertise lies. Slow build, Progressive overload, and pacing strategy is all classic cycling and endurance-based fitness.
The problem is we are a football club with completely different fitness and performance needs. Some of the fitness strategies we are deploying are unheard of in football. | | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 21:12 - Aug 18 with 1580 views | 1JD |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 12:26 - Aug 18 by slmrstid |
The thing with Williams is his background in cycling / working for Team Ineos etc means you're planning athletes physical loading and fitness around a handful of competitions per year where you need them at peak fitness for that event.
Its the same as athletes in an Olympic year - events they'll run in the Spring will (or should) be worse as they are specifically building to be at peak fitness for a two-week period in mid-summer for The Big One. What they do around that, even in events like Diamond League, is for the most part completely secondary.
You simply cannot do that in a sport like football where it is 9 months long and each week needs maximum effort/focus. The same would go for a 82 regular game NBA season at the Nets.
It might have looked good for one year but as Hunter points out it was also Marti taking over from Ainsworth.
My sporting experience ultimately is no more than amateur running but getting to a decent level (sub-80 minute half, sub-3 hour marathon) to understand some basic training principles, it is bonkers, in my view, to try and adapt the same physical conditioning methods you see in a sport like cycling, to football. |
Just seen this. Completely in line with my post above. Cycling and football are completely different sports. And Williams has no expertise in football. And it is showing.. | | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 21:19 - Aug 18 with 1554 views | Ranger_1969 |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 21:12 - Aug 18 by 1JD |
Just seen this. Completely in line with my post above. Cycling and football are completely different sports. And Williams has no expertise in football. And it is showing.. |
Maybe the players could ride bikes around the pitch instead of running?
Though knowing us we'd end up with a load of punctures....  | | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 21:26 - Aug 18 with 1507 views | gazza1 |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 14:52 - Aug 18 by QPRMinty |
Some posters don't like the fact that the likes of Varane and Kone didn't start on Saturday.
Substitutes are a precious commodity - you have to be sparing with them, as you never know what injuries or cards may occur during the game.
If you start two players that you know absolutely WILL have to be subbed at some point (probably 60 minutes, or so), just because they're not fully match-fit, you're taking the unnecessary risk of not having the subs you need to affect the game late on. Not to mention the risk to the unfit players themselves, as they'll be expected to play a lot more minutes as a starter than as a sub.
So it makes absolute sense to have your least fit players as the ones to come on later in the game, (a) to give them minutes towards fitness, and (b) to ensure you have all your subs available for injuries, replacing players on cards, and to affect the game later on.
The same could apply to Esquerdinha, as well. He may be fit, but up against 'men' for 90 minutes is a big ask as a youngster, especially as a full-back. That could be why he wasn't a starter (?).
It's just where we are at the moment, with the injury and fitness situation... [Post edited 18 Aug 17:18]
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can you explain this part please........i do not understand it fully.
If you start two players that you know absolutely WILL have to be subbed at some point (probably 60 minutes, or so), just because they're not fully match-fit, you're taking the unnecessary risk of not having the subs you need to affect the game late on. Not to mention the risk to the unfit players themselves, as they'll be expected to play a lot more minutes as a starter than as a sub. | | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 21:29 - Aug 18 with 1477 views | 1JD |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 10:32 - Aug 18 by Hunterhoop |
Can we be clear: This is a Ben Williams strategy. Entirely Ben Williams.
His first season was the well known Ainsworth season. He was brought in over the summer when Ainsworth wanted to overhaul the physio/medical side of the club because he felt (when we survived by the skin of our teeth) there were too many injuries. There were. Think Balogun and others being unavailable for weeks on end with mystery muscle injuries. Who hired Ben Williams? Well, in the spring/summer of 2023, who were the club’s recruitment consultant for non-playing roles? Retexo. Who owned the QPR account for Retexo? Nourry.
Anyway, Ben Williams came out that close season when hired and said we would be implementing some sort of gradual loading philosophy that meant we may be 60% in week 1, but the gradual ramp up in fitness would mean we’d have few injuries later in the season and come on strong. To be fair, we did begin hilariously slowly, and we did come home strong. How much of that was to do with Marti Cifuentes being the manager in the last half of the season and Ainsworth the manager at the start, is a valid question.
Anyway, the club wheeled out Ben Williams to be lauded for this when we stayed up.
Last season we had the whole nonsense of the club telling us nothing, it leaking that Williams was living in Dubai, and then Brooklyn Nets announcing they had employed him. Nourry was pushed on this after the fans forum on the topic and was very clear he was still working for us but also the Nets. It wasn’t clarified whether Williams was still in his old perm employment with the club and paid accordingly or paid as a consultant and was only doing ad hoc work. If the latter was true, who was accountable for player fitness last season because if Williams wasn’t a perm employee and only a consultant that department was headless again. Mental that, if you ask me.
Anyway, last Spring the Nets sacked Williams after having, I believe, statistically their worst season for injuries in this history and the 2nd or 3rd worst in the NBA. They had a ridiculous number of hamstring injuries. As we all know, QPR’s first team also had a horrific injury record last season. If you need to add in all age groups and the women’s team to reach an availability figure of 85% something has gone wrong. Elite sport is not comparable with U13s football. It is an insult to anyone with a brain to spout stats like that. His absence from the training ground, and the number of injuries was a huge issue for Cifuentes and a major contribution to the fall out with Nourry.
In the summer, we announce Ben Williams is back in the country and it gradually becomes clear he is in a perm role of Head of Sporting Operations. That covers the fitness/medical side but also a lot more (not that this has been clarified). I’ve heard he’s walking around Heston telling people his job is “the same one Les used to do”. The irony of promoting someone who spoke to another organisation and actually took a job with them for a year, whilst sticking someone else on garden leave for his agent talking to another organisation but not taking the job is lost on few at the club.
Williams is a former cycling fitness guys. Can’t divulge how I’ve heard this but the players don’t rate him, have little respect for him, and at least one has hired their own fitness trainer to help them rehab an injury better.
This season we start with a farcical number of injuries for game one, and are clearly not fully fit after the 3rd game of the season.
Williams does not report to Stephan. He reports to the bloke that hired him. And they are very close.
I think Stephan needs way way longer before anyone starts judging him. I like the appointment, want him to succeed and think we need to get behind him. I hope he learns the lessons Cifuentes had to quickly this season, but it’s understandable why he has to go through the same cycle. That isn’t on him. He’s starting the season with key players out with muscle injuries. One of our big signings has been taken away from him. His captain has been unavailable. Knowingly or not, he’s already referenced “fatigue” after his 2nd league game. Sam Field said he expected the team would be blowing after 45 mins against Preston.
Why is this bloke employed by us? When are we replacing him?
Are we happy with a model/infrastructure where the fitness guy and the set pieces guy, don’t report to the Head Coach?I can see a logic to a Head of Methodolgy and a Head of Player Development sitting outside the head coach and operating through the age groups, but they should still be junior to the Head Coach, but reporting to the DOF. Defence Coach, Steve Bould, I’m really not sure. In all those videos he looks to be a first team coach not working with the U13s or EDS.
Stephan has only had 3 competitive games (and was clearly instructed to play a young side at Plymouth). But Ben Williams has overseen 3 pre-seasons and 2 full seasons plus this start. We have started very slowly in all those seasons. I think it’s perfectly timely to be asking questions about him. It’s not about Stephan. Give him a chance. [Post edited 18 Aug 10:35]
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Great post.
I’ve been wondering when the talk might begin about Williams’ new role. Head of Sporting Operations.
Which simply means Head of Football Operations. And a title and role that some clubs have instead of Director of Football.
I am sure that he is fully qualified for this role and significantly expanded remit… | | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 00:10 - Aug 19 with 1294 views | daveB |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 09:04 - Aug 18 by Northernr |
Fox deterrent. They've decided to destroy my back yard. |
I once read that pissing in the garden worked to get rid of them which I tried, as I work from home a lot when I needed a wee I popped out to the garden and would piss in various areas of the garden for a week or so
One day I did this as normal and forgot the gardener was round and she looked very confused as I popped the old chap out and had a wee a few feet from the poor woman who was clearing some weeds. We never spoke of the incident again but she does now play her radio a lot louder I think to scare me off from having a wee near her when she pops round
Another fox tale, I was playing football with my daughter 2 weeks ago, night before we went on holiday and as I went to get the ball found a dead fox at the back of the garden, absolutley shit myself that is was not dead and was going to move so I bravely got my wife to bag it up and stick it in the bin
Anyway, back to Ben Williams
He's another Mike Rigg, full of bull and bluster, he'll go far | | | |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 07:38 - Aug 19 with 989 views | numptydumpty |
When I first heard Ben Williams talk, when he was first appointed, I was massively impressed....
Sounded ground breaking....
Admittedly at the fans forum, he was bricking it, understandable, but whether the approach will work, is questionable. Although, it wasn't great to twist statistics to suggest reasons for injuries, were out of our control, but out of our abilities to change.
Nourry also said at the forum, that Stephan picks the team, with no interference from him.
However, I am against throwing both under the bus after a customary cup exit and a couple of league games. But especially Stephan. |  |
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| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 08:08 - Aug 19 with 905 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Julien Stephan - Word of warning on 07:38 - Aug 19 by numptydumpty |
When I first heard Ben Williams talk, when he was first appointed, I was massively impressed....
Sounded ground breaking....
Admittedly at the fans forum, he was bricking it, understandable, but whether the approach will work, is questionable. Although, it wasn't great to twist statistics to suggest reasons for injuries, were out of our control, but out of our abilities to change.
Nourry also said at the forum, that Stephan picks the team, with no interference from him.
However, I am against throwing both under the bus after a customary cup exit and a couple of league games. But especially Stephan. |
Clearly Stephan was told to play the youngsters at Plymouth and I suspect told that Walsh is going to be our keeper. The problem with this is you start to wonder what else he is being told to do and any decision he makes comes with that doubt. All very well if we're winning but if we have a poor run like last season he's the man in the spotlight, not the powerful figure in the shadows. | | | |
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