| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 06:49 - Jul 17 with 2017 views | nix |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 22:44 - Jul 16 by ChrisNW6 |
or they placed him on garden leave because they knew he was not a viable long term option and was the best option for the club.
You seem to have a lot of inside knowledge, but it looks like placing Marti on garden leave was the correct decision. He was going to leave at some point and the club needed to be able to move forward. |
They claim to have inside knowledge but as it's just an anonymous forum:
a) how do we know that's true?
b) even if it is true how do we know that person is acting in good faith. People make things up at work all the time because they're disgruntled employees.
I agree with you he was leaving at some point - never stayed anywhere as head coach longer than the (nearly) two seasons he'd been with us. |  | |  |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 07:15 - Jul 17 with 1926 views | nix |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 18:25 - Jul 16 by Burnleyhoop |
So if the club wasn’t bothered about Marti whispering sweet nothings into the ear of WBA, why was he placed on garden leave?
And if it was WBA who made the approach, isn’t that a breach of EFL regulations and as such subject to sanctions of some description?
Clear as mud. |
My post was about Leicester not caring that Marti was technically in breach of contract by talking to them as it happens all the time - we do it too. That's why I wasn't surprised/outraged when BOS left cheaply as we got him cheaply at the end of his contract from Blackpool.
As for QPR I'm sure the club weren't overjoyed about Marti approaching other clubs with vacancies but I imagine it wasn't a huge surprise given he never stays anywhere long. It would make sense for them to constantly have a shortlist of wannabe replacements. The gardening leave may have been to speed things up. Worse case scenario would be entire transfer window/pre-season with a coach who then leaves.
I don't begrudge Marti going at the end of the season but he shouldn't be treated as some wronged party. He clearly wanted a higher up job (linked with WBA and Leicester) and even after paying some of the release fee I think he still ended up with cash left over from QPR as he recently signed a new contract. | | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 07:24 - Jul 17 with 1884 views | Blue_Castello |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 06:49 - Jul 17 by nix |
They claim to have inside knowledge but as it's just an anonymous forum:
a) how do we know that's true?
b) even if it is true how do we know that person is acting in good faith. People make things up at work all the time because they're disgruntled employees.
I agree with you he was leaving at some point - never stayed anywhere as head coach longer than the (nearly) two seasons he'd been with us. |
Very true it's anonymous so Lassel could well have been feeding us a line as to where he got his information, the story about his wife working in a senior position at Hammarby seemed very plausible, I would be interested to know Clive's take on his input.
Martis employment history certainly shows he never stayed anywhere too long but he did walk round the ground before he left and when asked was he staying he replied I hope so, again something reported on here but it shows he did want to stay but was being pushed out of the club by Nourry.
Anyway whatever we believe we have a new Manager to support now, he's got a tough job again and needs that support. |  | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 07:33 - Jul 17 with 1844 views | QPR_Jim |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 07:15 - Jul 17 by nix |
My post was about Leicester not caring that Marti was technically in breach of contract by talking to them as it happens all the time - we do it too. That's why I wasn't surprised/outraged when BOS left cheaply as we got him cheaply at the end of his contract from Blackpool.
As for QPR I'm sure the club weren't overjoyed about Marti approaching other clubs with vacancies but I imagine it wasn't a huge surprise given he never stays anywhere long. It would make sense for them to constantly have a shortlist of wannabe replacements. The gardening leave may have been to speed things up. Worse case scenario would be entire transfer window/pre-season with a coach who then leaves.
I don't begrudge Marti going at the end of the season but he shouldn't be treated as some wronged party. He clearly wanted a higher up job (linked with WBA and Leicester) and even after paying some of the release fee I think he still ended up with cash left over from QPR as he recently signed a new contract. |
I get that we don't want to be going through pre-season with a manager that is going to leave but why do the garden leave before the last game of the season? If he'd done something that was against his contract that's sackable so you wouldn't need garden leave.
By doing the garden leave and sacking him we've managed to take a situation where someone may have paid us for his services and turned it into one where people are happy we've got some of the pay off back as compensation.
We took ages to appoint the replacement so it's not really helped with the season preparations. Most clubs can sack a manager and get a replacement in 2 weeks so what was the deal there?
We will never know everything but given the above I think it's fair to say it was poorly handled by the club even if you think Marti was always going to leave anyway.
I can't see any reason for why they did that, we'll never know but I don't see what the club gained by putting him on garden leave before the final game. The only outcome was inferring he was somehow in the wrong (although not enough to sack him) to try and make the inevitable leaving of a popular manager over the summer seem like it was his fault. Why would the club give up potential money to do that? |  | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 07:37 - Jul 17 with 1819 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 11:48 - Jul 16 by stinkydad |
You can't compare being a football manager or head coach with any other job. You sign a contract for a fixed term and I'm sure that contract will contain terms and clauses that you won't find in any other job contract.
Marty clearly broke the terms of his contract in some way but we'll probably never know how.
Mind you, player and manager contracts seem pretty much meaningless in many ways these days... |
‘Marty clearly broke the terms of his contract in some way but we'll probably never know how’
It’s really not clear. Gardening leave isn’t a disciplinary measure. |  | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:03 - Jul 17 with 1715 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
I loved Marti the first season but was pretty underwhelmed by last season. People keep making excuses for him when in reality every manager gets judged by how the first team performs - not who signed players, how the Development Squad does or whether the DoF is a dick. Stephan will be judged in that way and won't have the credit in the bank that Marti had.
It will be interesting to see how he does with Leicester as my suspicion is we overrated him because his baseline was so low, coming in to replace someone who thought getting in the opposition half was an achievement. | | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:05 - Jul 17 with 1722 views | nix |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 07:33 - Jul 17 by QPR_Jim |
I get that we don't want to be going through pre-season with a manager that is going to leave but why do the garden leave before the last game of the season? If he'd done something that was against his contract that's sackable so you wouldn't need garden leave.
By doing the garden leave and sacking him we've managed to take a situation where someone may have paid us for his services and turned it into one where people are happy we've got some of the pay off back as compensation.
We took ages to appoint the replacement so it's not really helped with the season preparations. Most clubs can sack a manager and get a replacement in 2 weeks so what was the deal there?
We will never know everything but given the above I think it's fair to say it was poorly handled by the club even if you think Marti was always going to leave anyway.
I can't see any reason for why they did that, we'll never know but I don't see what the club gained by putting him on garden leave before the final game. The only outcome was inferring he was somehow in the wrong (although not enough to sack him) to try and make the inevitable leaving of a popular manager over the summer seem like it was his fault. Why would the club give up potential money to do that? |
I don't know why we did the gardening leave thing. I honestly don't think we were ever getting compensation in close season though: there are too many managers available and other clubs know we need to get things resolved so we can move on. I think you're only getting compensation from a Championship club mid-season because they're desperate to avoid relegation/make the play offs.
I think what took ages was agreeing compensation with Marti. He knew we were screwed once he was on gardening leave as we couldn't appoint anyone else and on the face of it he could sit around waiting for us to cave.
I do think though the Board knew he was leaving. It was a case of when. If we'd waited until he'd got the Leicester job though Stephan may have gone elsewhere. Managers on a contract always seem to have a lot of power in these situations. | | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:11 - Jul 17 with 1694 views | gazza1 |
I had a 'lot of time for MC, a lot, but what he did by going to WBA (if he did) is very wrong and I am extremely disappointed and basically 'fxxx him'.
I do not care if it goes on or why it goes on, it is wrong and sadly my respect for MC has diminished and could not give a shite about him any more. | | | |
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| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:43 - Jul 17 with 1588 views | Blue_Castello |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:05 - Jul 17 by nix |
I don't know why we did the gardening leave thing. I honestly don't think we were ever getting compensation in close season though: there are too many managers available and other clubs know we need to get things resolved so we can move on. I think you're only getting compensation from a Championship club mid-season because they're desperate to avoid relegation/make the play offs.
I think what took ages was agreeing compensation with Marti. He knew we were screwed once he was on gardening leave as we couldn't appoint anyone else and on the face of it he could sit around waiting for us to cave.
I do think though the Board knew he was leaving. It was a case of when. If we'd waited until he'd got the Leicester job though Stephan may have gone elsewhere. Managers on a contract always seem to have a lot of power in these situations. |
Again it's all guesswork, very few facts available, maybe Marti was leaving but why did he say he wanted to stay, we will never know.
As you can guess I'm in the camp of not being happy with the way it was handled but it's done now, we move on and support the next man. | | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:51 - Jul 17 with 1566 views | slmrstid |
There's absolutely zero thing as loyalty in workplaces, there never has been whether its football, manufacturing, technology.
The longer you stay at a company, generally the more you'll be underpaid because internal payrises will never match what people get for job hopping across the market unless they get significant promotions.
Companies, whether football, manufacturing or technology, will dump employees as soon as they are no longer convenient to them. Its not unreasonable for employees to do the same back. |  | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 09:15 - Jul 17 with 1438 views | francisbowles |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 15:45 - Jul 16 by LongRanger |
My understanding is its only the top managers who get contracts paid out in full, all others, e.g. Marti, would be paid until they get another job. If that new job pays them less, the sacking club subsidise it to the same level they were at, until the cancelled contract would have expired. If the new club pay the same or more, the pay out ends when they begin new employment.
I still think the gardening leave idea will have jeopardised more compensation than anything we did get. |
LongRanger, you are possibly right. It's a negotiation and as I said, I was speculating. Marti could have been on a higher salary or had another year or two on his contract.
It's been reported that he is contributing £250k as part of the deal for compensation, so that would point to a significant pay off from our club. | | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:18 - Jul 17 with 1200 views | kensalriser |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:05 - Jul 17 by nix |
I don't know why we did the gardening leave thing. I honestly don't think we were ever getting compensation in close season though: there are too many managers available and other clubs know we need to get things resolved so we can move on. I think you're only getting compensation from a Championship club mid-season because they're desperate to avoid relegation/make the play offs.
I think what took ages was agreeing compensation with Marti. He knew we were screwed once he was on gardening leave as we couldn't appoint anyone else and on the face of it he could sit around waiting for us to cave.
I do think though the Board knew he was leaving. It was a case of when. If we'd waited until he'd got the Leicester job though Stephan may have gone elsewhere. Managers on a contract always seem to have a lot of power in these situations. |
I can’t think of any reason why we couldn’t appoint a new manager while Cifuentes was on garden leave. |  |
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| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:54 - Jul 17 with 1096 views | nix |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:18 - Jul 17 by kensalriser |
I can’t think of any reason why we couldn’t appoint a new manager while Cifuentes was on garden leave. |
I think it would probably breach the terms of his contract plus FA rules. Also who would want to come into a job in that scenario. Plus very unsettling for the players. I felt relieved when Marti left finally as it was in limbo let alone people who work at the club. | | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 13:15 - Jul 17 with 1012 views | Lblock |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 07:24 - Jul 17 by Blue_Castello |
Very true it's anonymous so Lassel could well have been feeding us a line as to where he got his information, the story about his wife working in a senior position at Hammarby seemed very plausible, I would be interested to know Clive's take on his input.
Martis employment history certainly shows he never stayed anywhere too long but he did walk round the ground before he left and when asked was he staying he replied I hope so, again something reported on here but it shows he did want to stay but was being pushed out of the club by Nourry.
Anyway whatever we believe we have a new Manager to support now, he's got a tough job again and needs that support. |
"he did walk round the ground before he left and when asked was he staying he replied I hope so, again something reported on here but it shows he did want to stay"
My boss asked me last week what my plans were as I'd said to him months back I've got my eyes firmly on early retirement.
I said to him "nothing at the moment -- bills to pay and all that" so in his eyes I'm all in at the moment.
Truth of the matter is that if the Truss & Khazi disaster hadn't been followed by Rachel from Accounts trashing the economy then I'd have sold a house, paid off debts and have been out the door like a flash.
I'll never trash Marti as I think what he achieved here was amazing but......... take what is said with a pinch of salt. |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 13:46 - Jul 17 with 903 views | kensalriser |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:54 - Jul 17 by nix |
I think it would probably breach the terms of his contract plus FA rules. Also who would want to come into a job in that scenario. Plus very unsettling for the players. I felt relieved when Marti left finally as it was in limbo let alone people who work at the club. |
I have no idea about FA rules, maybe someone else does. I do have some idea about garden leave because it's happened to people I know. One had to wait over six months before being able to take up a new position because the company he wanted to resign from decided that while they still had a say in it they would rather pay him to sit at home instead of go to a competitor .
Multiple times every season across the league a manager is sacked and a new one appointed within weeks, sometimes days. Many of the sacked managers will be in the same position as Cifuentes - some might negotiate a payoff straight away, others might decide to just carry on getting paid until they find a new gig or even until the contract expires. So it's hard to believe it would breach the terms of his contract. It's also hard to believe the club would have knowingly put itself in the position of losing control of the ability to appoint a new manager because they'd put the old one on garden leave. I mean, I think the whole thing has been inept but that would be a different level.
Re the players and any prospective new manager - all this stuff is routine is football, I think they just get on with it. Do you really think managers care much about what happened to the last one? They know how it works.
Obviously it's better for everyone that the situation is resolved now. [Post edited 17 Jul 13:48]
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| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:21 - Jul 17 with 798 views | francisbowles |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:11 - Jul 17 by gazza1 |
I had a 'lot of time for MC, a lot, but what he did by going to WBA (if he did) is very wrong and I am extremely disappointed and basically 'fxxx him'.
I do not care if it goes on or why it goes on, it is wrong and sadly my respect for MC has diminished and could not give a shite about him any more. |
As I've said in a couple of posts, if you were being forced out of your job, wouldn't you be looking at the jobs vacant columns? | | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:22 - Jul 17 with 779 views | JamesB1979 |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:21 - Jul 17 by francisbowles |
As I've said in a couple of posts, if you were being forced out of your job, wouldn't you be looking at the jobs vacant columns? |
Was he being forced out last summer though? He was looking then too. | | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:27 - Jul 17 with 754 views | francisbowles |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:22 - Jul 17 by JamesB1979 |
Was he being forced out last summer though? He was looking then too. |
Maybe. We don't know but I think there was already friction between Marti and Christian. | | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 15:19 - Jul 17 with 614 views | stevec |
If there was a Marti performance graph it would have been at 100% after 6 months, 0% after 12 months and 50% after 18 months. Who knows how it would have gone after another 6 months.
There’s been little overall progression, just another manager who finds a new way to keep our heads above water.
In the end, Marti got what he wanted and we got compensation. A mutual parting where nobody’s any worse off. Time to move on. |  | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 15:47 - Jul 17 with 525 views | LongRanger |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 15:19 - Jul 17 by stevec |
If there was a Marti performance graph it would have been at 100% after 6 months, 0% after 12 months and 50% after 18 months. Who knows how it would have gone after another 6 months.
There’s been little overall progression, just another manager who finds a new way to keep our heads above water.
In the end, Marti got what he wanted and we got compensation. A mutual parting where nobody’s any worse off. Time to move on. |
'little overall progression'....that is amazing, not sure if you remember the last month or so under Ainsworth, but whatever you think of the style, of how he handled himself etc, to suggest anything other than he did a very good job for us in his period in charge seems bizarre to me.
Also, we didn't get any compensation, we just got some of the money back, that we paid him to leave...big difference. Nourry financially screwed this up, however you cut it.
The fact is, if you don't get on with your boss, and he's not going anywhere, either you need to move on or he'll move you on, so he's gone, and we all move on. | | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 16:29 - Jul 17 with 422 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 15:47 - Jul 17 by LongRanger |
'little overall progression'....that is amazing, not sure if you remember the last month or so under Ainsworth, but whatever you think of the style, of how he handled himself etc, to suggest anything other than he did a very good job for us in his period in charge seems bizarre to me.
Also, we didn't get any compensation, we just got some of the money back, that we paid him to leave...big difference. Nourry financially screwed this up, however you cut it.
The fact is, if you don't get on with your boss, and he's not going anywhere, either you need to move on or he'll move you on, so he's gone, and we all move on. |
Critchley before Ainsworth too. We'd started to smell rotten under Beale (I'm still convince the reason he scampered as fast as his legs would carry him) and the last six months of Warbs' were on a similar scale.
I'd argue the exact inverse of SteveC - He's the ONLY manager that's shown consistently that he's been able to keep our head above water since January 2022.
It's quite astounding how split we are as a fanbase on Marti, with pretty extreme views on either side. That alone suggests to me there's been some propaganda at play whether Marti did a good, bad or indifferent job.
Anyway it's history. Allez Julien. But I wish no bad fortune of Marti other than when he plays against us. |  | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 16:32 - Jul 17 with 407 views | stevec |
Well they say the league table at the end of a season doesn’t lie and we finished 15th.
Ainsworth was a particular low, but even he kept us up like every other manager before him in the last ten years.
You’re right, there was progression under Marti, albeit marginal on the field. We ended his tenure with us no clearer whether he’d left a side that wouldn’t be battling relegation this season. Low bars and all that but we’re not talking Stock, Jago, Venables, Warnock here. | | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 17:14 - Jul 17 with 263 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 15:19 - Jul 17 by stevec |
If there was a Marti performance graph it would have been at 100% after 6 months, 0% after 12 months and 50% after 18 months. Who knows how it would have gone after another 6 months.
There’s been little overall progression, just another manager who finds a new way to keep our heads above water.
In the end, Marti got what he wanted and we got compensation. A mutual parting where nobody’s any worse off. Time to move on. |
“There’s been little overall progression, just another manager who finds a new way to keep our heads above water”
I know it’s hard to hear but maybe this is just the size of club we are. | | | |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 17:15 - Jul 17 with 259 views | OldPedro |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 16:32 - Jul 17 by stevec |
Well they say the league table at the end of a season doesn’t lie and we finished 15th.
Ainsworth was a particular low, but even he kept us up like every other manager before him in the last ten years.
You’re right, there was progression under Marti, albeit marginal on the field. We ended his tenure with us no clearer whether he’d left a side that wouldn’t be battling relegation this season. Low bars and all that but we’re not talking Stock, Jago, Venables, Warnock here. |
Ainsworth - we stayed up in spite of him rather than because of him.
Cifuentes was handicapped last season by the unbalanced squad provided by the CEO/DOF and recruitment department. Add to that the injury situation with Ben Williams allowed to get a job elsewhere and work off-shore as some sort of consultant. |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 17:17 - Jul 17 with 256 views | kensalriser |
| Marti to Leicester…maybe on 16:32 - Jul 17 by stevec |
Well they say the league table at the end of a season doesn’t lie and we finished 15th.
Ainsworth was a particular low, but even he kept us up like every other manager before him in the last ten years.
You’re right, there was progression under Marti, albeit marginal on the field. We ended his tenure with us no clearer whether he’d left a side that wouldn’t be battling relegation this season. Low bars and all that but we’re not talking Stock, Jago, Venables, Warnock here. |
Ainsworth kept us up is far from the whole truth, though.
We were 17th with 39 points when he took over and 20th with 50 points at season end.
When he left after 14 games of the new season we were 23rd with 8 points.
That's 19 points from 27 games. I'd love to see the argument that we wouldn't have been relegated under Ainsworth if he'd had a whole season. | |
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