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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:51 - Jul 17 by slmrstid
There's absolutely zero thing as loyalty in workplaces, there never has been whether its football, manufacturing, technology.
The longer you stay at a company, generally the more you'll be underpaid because internal payrises will never match what people get for job hopping across the market unless they get significant promotions.
Companies, whether football, manufacturing or technology, will dump employees as soon as they are no longer convenient to them. Its not unreasonable for employees to do the same back.
As we well know football clubs can't suddenly "dump employees as soon as they are no longer convenient to them". Mores the pity in some cases.
I get people want to support Marti but does that mean what Beale did was fine? A lot of mental gymnastics/cognitive dissonance going on to try and support Marti looking to leave after 6 months whilst Beale is universally loathed for successfully doing so. At least he had us top of the league.
Maybe Marti felt he had to go because of Nourry, maybe not, but I can't believe so many of us expect and are ready to accept every manager we get actively looking to Beale Out on us after 6 months.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 17:40 - Jul 17 with 2443 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 17:14 - Jul 17 by BazzaInTheLoft
“There’s been little overall progression, just another manager who finds a new way to keep our heads above water”
I know it’s hard to hear but maybe this is just the size of club we are.
True to an extent, but the Brentford’s and Bournemouths to name but two are proof that inspirational owners and managers can change all that.
We’ve seen it before our own eyes, Gregory-Stock took us on a glorious ride when we’d always been a third division club. Venables made a massive difference to a side that was struggling to get out of a significant rut.
We have suffered some poor owners in recent times, has handicapped every manager that arrives. In that respect, we can only give a pass to the many managers who haven’t succeeded. It doesn’t help that for a manager to succeed he’ll need to do it despite the owners, that is probably the real issue here.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 19:15 - Jul 17 with 2290 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 17:28 - Jul 17 by 1BobbyHazell
As we well know football clubs can't suddenly "dump employees as soon as they are no longer convenient to them". Mores the pity in some cases.
I get people want to support Marti but does that mean what Beale did was fine? A lot of mental gymnastics/cognitive dissonance going on to try and support Marti looking to leave after 6 months whilst Beale is universally loathed for successfully doing so. At least he had us top of the league.
Maybe Marti felt he had to go because of Nourry, maybe not, but I can't believe so many of us expect and are ready to accept every manager we get actively looking to Beale Out on us after 6 months.
The big difference between Marti and Beale is that Marti was reportedly looking at getting a new position last summer, not mud-season. He got the job done and decided for whatever reason that he'd be better off moving to a new club. Beale was doing it mid season and to 3 clubs, so started to look away well before 6 months.
Bigger question for us is why managers keep looking at the working of our club from the inside and deciding they'd be better off somewhere else. I get that football managers are ambitious and that they're not as loyal to clubs as fans as it's their career, but other clubs don't seem to have this issue. Sheffield Wednesday didn't even pay their manager and he's still there.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 20:38 - Jul 17 with 2167 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 17:15 - Jul 17 by OldPedro
Ainsworth - we stayed up in spite of him rather than because of him.
Cifuentes was handicapped last season by the unbalanced squad provided by the CEO/DOF and recruitment department. Add to that the injury situation with Ben Williams allowed to get a job elsewhere and work off-shore as some sort of consultant.
Almost every manager in every season has been hampered by poor recruitment and injuries, with the exception of the season Ben Williams was here before slinging his hook to Dubai.
What we are in need of, despite the size of our club and its financial limitations, is a season where we “punch” well above our weight.
I was hoping this might just be that season, but injuries are already blighting our early preparations.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 21:01 - Jul 17 with 2125 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 20:38 - Jul 17 by Burnleyhoop
Almost every manager in every season has been hampered by poor recruitment and injuries, with the exception of the season Ben Williams was here before slinging his hook to Dubai.
What we are in need of, despite the size of our club and its financial limitations, is a season where we “punch” well above our weight.
I was hoping this might just be that season, but injuries are already blighting our early preparations.
I'm concerned we are pinning too much of last season's injury problems on Ben Williams working remotely. Hopefully, it can't get any worse, but I'm not sure the injury luck we had the previous season was all down to Ben Williams. Obviously it helps to have your fitness coach at the training ground everyday, but we have quite a few fragile squad players.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:34 - Jul 18 with 1836 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 19:15 - Jul 17 by QPR_Jim
The big difference between Marti and Beale is that Marti was reportedly looking at getting a new position last summer, not mud-season. He got the job done and decided for whatever reason that he'd be better off moving to a new club. Beale was doing it mid season and to 3 clubs, so started to look away well before 6 months.
Bigger question for us is why managers keep looking at the working of our club from the inside and deciding they'd be better off somewhere else. I get that football managers are ambitious and that they're not as loyal to clubs as fans as it's their career, but other clubs don't seem to have this issue. Sheffield Wednesday didn't even pay their manager and he's still there.
The reason is pretty simple - we can’t compete financially and so are a stepping stone club.
Suspend reality for a moment and say we are top 2 at the first international break. Stephan’s agent would spend it twerking in the direction of every struggling PL club and why not. We can’t realistically challenge the richer clubs in the league and miracles are rarer than Hollywood would like you to believe.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 09:22 - Jul 18 with 1726 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:34 - Jul 18 by lassel
The reason is pretty simple - we can’t compete financially and so are a stepping stone club.
Suspend reality for a moment and say we are top 2 at the first international break. Stephan’s agent would spend it twerking in the direction of every struggling PL club and why not. We can’t realistically challenge the richer clubs in the league and miracles are rarer than Hollywood would like you to believe.
It's definitely not as simple as that. I'm not suggesting that's not a contributing factor - of course it is - but for both Beale and Cifuentes to have come in, worked around the place for 6 months and for them both to almost immediately be open to 'better offers' is not coincidental. Nor is it purely a reaction to a financial position that hadn't changed one jot for either of them since the day they'd taken the job.
For me there is something happening at the club which makes being the Head Coach a hard job that people don't want to carry on doing.
The difference between Beale and Marti is Marti saw his job through - Came in with us in the proverbial 5hit, got us out of it, saw out the season and kept us in the division. Whereas Beale coerced the club into spending a lot of money on the likes of Roberts, Balogun and Richards, directly addressed fans lecturing us about loyalty, looked us in the eyes and told us he wouldn't be leaving, then buggered off leaving behind a completely rotten and toxic squad. Marti isn't on the same planet as him morally; because he has some.
[Post edited 18 Jul 9:23]
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 09:45 - Jul 18 with 1658 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 09:22 - Jul 18 by Padulas_Shampoo
It's definitely not as simple as that. I'm not suggesting that's not a contributing factor - of course it is - but for both Beale and Cifuentes to have come in, worked around the place for 6 months and for them both to almost immediately be open to 'better offers' is not coincidental. Nor is it purely a reaction to a financial position that hadn't changed one jot for either of them since the day they'd taken the job.
For me there is something happening at the club which makes being the Head Coach a hard job that people don't want to carry on doing.
The difference between Beale and Marti is Marti saw his job through - Came in with us in the proverbial 5hit, got us out of it, saw out the season and kept us in the division. Whereas Beale coerced the club into spending a lot of money on the likes of Roberts, Balogun and Richards, directly addressed fans lecturing us about loyalty, looked us in the eyes and told us he wouldn't be leaving, then buggered off leaving behind a completely rotten and toxic squad. Marti isn't on the same planet as him morally; because he has some.
[Post edited 18 Jul 9:23]
Would we prefer to have a manager/coach that no one else wanted to hire ?
I’m certain that I don’t because they’d probably ensure we get relegated this season.
I know it can be difficult to lose good people but at least they were good for us - for a while.
As for who called who or who started it, it’s largely irrelevant once the decision to move has been made. Move on and try to find someone/something better.
Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
QPR sell themselves to people as a development club, do well here and you can move on to a bigger club, we do it with players and managers and that is the right way to do it as we are not and will never be at the top of the game and those players/managers doing well to get that move benefits us. If you think Julien Stephan sees this job as his end game you are going to be disapointed.
I struggle to then get my head around people being angry about the club being a stepping stone as that is exactly what we are.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 10:26 - Jul 18 with 1547 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 09:22 - Jul 18 by Padulas_Shampoo
It's definitely not as simple as that. I'm not suggesting that's not a contributing factor - of course it is - but for both Beale and Cifuentes to have come in, worked around the place for 6 months and for them both to almost immediately be open to 'better offers' is not coincidental. Nor is it purely a reaction to a financial position that hadn't changed one jot for either of them since the day they'd taken the job.
For me there is something happening at the club which makes being the Head Coach a hard job that people don't want to carry on doing.
The difference between Beale and Marti is Marti saw his job through - Came in with us in the proverbial 5hit, got us out of it, saw out the season and kept us in the division. Whereas Beale coerced the club into spending a lot of money on the likes of Roberts, Balogun and Richards, directly addressed fans lecturing us about loyalty, looked us in the eyes and told us he wouldn't be leaving, then buggered off leaving behind a completely rotten and toxic squad. Marti isn't on the same planet as him morally; because he has some.
[Post edited 18 Jul 9:23]
Sorry, meant to up vote that not down.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 11:20 - Jul 18 with 1480 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 17:28 - Jul 17 by 1BobbyHazell
As we well know football clubs can't suddenly "dump employees as soon as they are no longer convenient to them". Mores the pity in some cases.
I get people want to support Marti but does that mean what Beale did was fine? A lot of mental gymnastics/cognitive dissonance going on to try and support Marti looking to leave after 6 months whilst Beale is universally loathed for successfully doing so. At least he had us top of the league.
Maybe Marti felt he had to go because of Nourry, maybe not, but I can't believe so many of us expect and are ready to accept every manager we get actively looking to Beale Out on us after 6 months.
I mean it all seems fairly straightforward to me:
- I don't think Nourry and Cifuentes ever got on - Cifuentes got frustrated with lack of control over certain matters e.g. the physio - Cifuentes seems to have always been an ambitious manager moving clubs within a couple of years - Nourry was looking for any reason he could do to move Cifuentes out
My post was about Leicester not caring that Marti was technically in breach of contract by talking to them as it happens all the time - we do it too. That's why I wasn't surprised/outraged when BOS left cheaply as we got him cheaply at the end of his contract from Blackpool.
As for QPR I'm sure the club weren't overjoyed about Marti approaching other clubs with vacancies but I imagine it wasn't a huge surprise given he never stays anywhere long. It would make sense for them to constantly have a shortlist of wannabe replacements. The gardening leave may have been to speed things up. Worse case scenario would be entire transfer window/pre-season with a coach who then leaves.
I don't begrudge Marti going at the end of the season but he shouldn't be treated as some wronged party. He clearly wanted a higher up job (linked with WBA and Leicester) and even after paying some of the release fee I think he still ended up with cash left over from QPR as he recently signed a new contract.
This (again)! These people are professionals, whereas most fans (myself included) tend to be irrational sentimentalists. Hence, the pathos and tragic 'love is a losing game' condition of football fandom. Marti mostly takes Warnock's 'greatest fans' schtick, which he wheels out everyhere he goes, to its polished zenith and runs with it - even to the extent, apparently, of telli'ng one soiled/seduced fan he 'really wanted' to stay at the end of last season. Ooh, I dont think I've heard that, since, I don't know, Boil's poltergeitism five minutes ago. The difference is some older/wiser heads learn from it and some don't.
All of these Hoops are fake hoops, i.e. every employee basically, apart from rare diamond-backed dinosaurs like the likes of Alan McDonald. I think they're all the same in the end - playing to the crowd when they're here, while keeping their inner eye on the next move. If people don't see that, they're delusional, end of.
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 09:22 - Jul 18 by Padulas_Shampoo
It's definitely not as simple as that. I'm not suggesting that's not a contributing factor - of course it is - but for both Beale and Cifuentes to have come in, worked around the place for 6 months and for them both to almost immediately be open to 'better offers' is not coincidental. Nor is it purely a reaction to a financial position that hadn't changed one jot for either of them since the day they'd taken the job.
For me there is something happening at the club which makes being the Head Coach a hard job that people don't want to carry on doing.
The difference between Beale and Marti is Marti saw his job through - Came in with us in the proverbial 5hit, got us out of it, saw out the season and kept us in the division. Whereas Beale coerced the club into spending a lot of money on the likes of Roberts, Balogun and Richards, directly addressed fans lecturing us about loyalty, looked us in the eyes and told us he wouldn't be leaving, then buggered off leaving behind a completely rotten and toxic squad. Marti isn't on the same planet as him morally; because he has some.
[Post edited 18 Jul 9:23]
Mart didn't 'see the job through' - he signed a new, improved contract for his financial benefit and, I guess, the club's convenience, told one or two he 'really really' wanted to stay, while engineering his exit via his garden (which obviously didn't fool Dave Mc at WLS, whose cold-eyed putting-him-on-the-spotdom about whether he was leaving, plus Marti's guilty-looking rabbit-in-headlights reaction, was a searing journalistic 'gotcha' that a lot here just couldn't bear to compute at the time).
He's an OK manager at this level, not fully proven, but, as Marti himself liked to say, it's all about the plaaayers for me now, more than the manager.
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 10:26 - Jul 18 by daveB
QPR sell themselves to people as a development club, do well here and you can move on to a bigger club, we do it with players and managers and that is the right way to do it as we are not and will never be at the top of the game and those players/managers doing well to get that move benefits us. If you think Julien Stephan sees this job as his end game you are going to be disapointed.
I struggle to then get my head around people being angry about the club being a stepping stone as that is exactly what we are.
Its not unique to us, but there definitely is the phenomenon among football fans of having the blinkers on and thinking all their players and managers should only ever want to play for their club, and if they don't want to then they are terrible disloyal people.
Except when we want to get rid of them, then its good riddance and sod off and dont let the door hit your arse on the way out etc etc...
And then when players want to leave other clubs to come to ours, well of course they do, we've got no problem with that, we're a far better club than THEY are...
Etc!
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:25 - Jul 18 with 1315 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 11:47 - Jul 18 by stainrods_elbow
Mart didn't 'see the job through' - he signed a new, improved contract for his financial benefit and, I guess, the club's convenience, told one or two he 'really really' wanted to stay, while engineering his exit via his garden (which obviously didn't fool Dave Mc at WLS, whose cold-eyed putting-him-on-the-spotdom about whether he was leaving, plus Marti's guilty-looking rabbit-in-headlights reaction, was a searing journalistic 'gotcha' that a lot here just couldn't bear to compute at the time).
He's an OK manager at this level, not fully proven, but, as Marti himself liked to say, it's all about the plaaayers for me now, more than the manager.
Your memory of this is different from mine.
DM did put Marti on the spot by asking if he was considering quitting.
I didn't see any guilt in Marti's reaction when he said "not so far, why should I?"
DM was the one who looked a bit stunned and didn't have a follow up question so moved on.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:47 - Jul 18 with 1229 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 11:47 - Jul 18 by stainrods_elbow
Mart didn't 'see the job through' - he signed a new, improved contract for his financial benefit and, I guess, the club's convenience, told one or two he 'really really' wanted to stay, while engineering his exit via his garden (which obviously didn't fool Dave Mc at WLS, whose cold-eyed putting-him-on-the-spotdom about whether he was leaving, plus Marti's guilty-looking rabbit-in-headlights reaction, was a searing journalistic 'gotcha' that a lot here just couldn't bear to compute at the time).
He's an OK manager at this level, not fully proven, but, as Marti himself liked to say, it's all about the plaaayers for me now, more than the manager.
Yawn.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:55 - Jul 18 with 1169 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 10:26 - Jul 18 by daveB
QPR sell themselves to people as a development club, do well here and you can move on to a bigger club, we do it with players and managers and that is the right way to do it as we are not and will never be at the top of the game and those players/managers doing well to get that move benefits us. If you think Julien Stephan sees this job as his end game you are going to be disapointed.
I struggle to then get my head around people being angry about the club being a stepping stone as that is exactly what we are.
I agree. I was annoyed with Beale because of the lies and because he stuffed us so early on and mid-season. But I'm neither angry with Marti for going at the end of the season having done a solid, and at times miraculous, job nor remotely surprised. I'm perplexed at those that are.
Am I expecting Stephan to be here in three seasons time? No. Will I be happy with that if he leaves in a couple of seasons having progressed us to a top ten side and developed the players? Realistically yes.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:59 - Jul 18 with 1145 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 11:47 - Jul 18 by stainrods_elbow
Mart didn't 'see the job through' - he signed a new, improved contract for his financial benefit and, I guess, the club's convenience, told one or two he 'really really' wanted to stay, while engineering his exit via his garden (which obviously didn't fool Dave Mc at WLS, whose cold-eyed putting-him-on-the-spotdom about whether he was leaving, plus Marti's guilty-looking rabbit-in-headlights reaction, was a searing journalistic 'gotcha' that a lot here just couldn't bear to compute at the time).
He's an OK manager at this level, not fully proven, but, as Marti himself liked to say, it's all about the plaaayers for me now, more than the manager.
I dunno, the way you say 'his financial benefit', whilst it was merely convenient for the club - 'I guess'?
Come on SE, that contract was signed to the mutual benefit of both parties, why not just say that?
And everything you put into brackets feels like you're reaching a bit.
I do agree that his ability as a coach at this level is not fully proven, and it will be interesting to gauge this season how he does.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:43 - Jul 18 with 1024 views
I agree. I was annoyed with Beale because of the lies and because he stuffed us so early on and mid-season. But I'm neither angry with Marti for going at the end of the season having done a solid, and at times miraculous, job nor remotely surprised. I'm perplexed at those that are.
Am I expecting Stephan to be here in three seasons time? No. Will I be happy with that if he leaves in a couple of seasons having progressed us to a top ten side and developed the players? Realistically yes.
The bloke will be canonised if he gets us in the top 10!
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:59 - Jul 18 by Monkey_Roots
I dunno, the way you say 'his financial benefit', whilst it was merely convenient for the club - 'I guess'?
Come on SE, that contract was signed to the mutual benefit of both parties, why not just say that?
And everything you put into brackets feels like you're reaching a bit.
I do agree that his ability as a coach at this level is not fully proven, and it will be interesting to gauge this season how he does.
I said, 'I guess' because I don't know for sure, and I like to retain at least an element of speculation/self-criticality to my thinking. (Marti signing it for his own benefit is, for my money, more clear-cut.) I think all the most interesting thinking involves a bit of a 'reach', no? That's how people complicate their own (or at least find out what/whose side they're more on.)
As for fan boards, as most of us know nothing or next to nothing about the opbject of our mad love, what are they - and what is writing - for but to entertain, antagonise, complicate, and provoke?
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:15 - Jul 18 by slmrstid
Its not unique to us, but there definitely is the phenomenon among football fans of having the blinkers on and thinking all their players and managers should only ever want to play for their club, and if they don't want to then they are terrible disloyal people.
Except when we want to get rid of them, then its good riddance and sod off and dont let the door hit your arse on the way out etc etc...
And then when players want to leave other clubs to come to ours, well of course they do, we've got no problem with that, we're a far better club than THEY are...
Etc!
I have no problem with individual players wanting to move to a new club to progress their careers or get a better deal. Ultimately, they have a short career as a footballer and need to maximise their income before it ends. Fair enough.
A manager / coach is different. They at least have the opportunity, if sufficiently capable, to work in football for the rest of their working lives.
The main issue I have with the Marti debacle is the impact on morale and motivation of the players. The manager is the leader of the group, the one who inspires, motivates and builds a winning culture. If it is known your manager is trying to engineer a move away from the club, all that turns to shit, or it would for me at least.
If however, Marti was doing such a fantastic job that other clubs were coming in wanting to offer him and the club fantastic money to poach him from our club, then I could live with that and wish him well in his new endeavours.
Marti was doing a good job under difficult circumstances, but was, apparently, trying to engineer a move out of the club for some time. If that was indeed the case, then he needed to go asap. To cast him as some wronged messiah, for me at least, is utter tosh.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:32 - Jul 19 with 298 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 08:13 - Jul 19 by Burnleyhoop
I have no problem with individual players wanting to move to a new club to progress their careers or get a better deal. Ultimately, they have a short career as a footballer and need to maximise their income before it ends. Fair enough.
A manager / coach is different. They at least have the opportunity, if sufficiently capable, to work in football for the rest of their working lives.
The main issue I have with the Marti debacle is the impact on morale and motivation of the players. The manager is the leader of the group, the one who inspires, motivates and builds a winning culture. If it is known your manager is trying to engineer a move away from the club, all that turns to shit, or it would for me at least.
If however, Marti was doing such a fantastic job that other clubs were coming in wanting to offer him and the club fantastic money to poach him from our club, then I could live with that and wish him well in his new endeavours.
Marti was doing a good job under difficult circumstances, but was, apparently, trying to engineer a move out of the club for some time. If that was indeed the case, then he needed to go asap. To cast him as some wronged messiah, for me at least, is utter tosh.
I don't think the pro-Marti camp see him as a "wronged messiah". I do believe he got us as a club, I think he was genuinely moved by the support he got during the bad times (good luck with that at Leicester, mate), but do I think he now has a QPR tattoo and will be an R for the rest of his life? No, of course not. He's a professional and he's moved on, he's already done a Leicester intro interview identical to his one here, except replacing "Stan Bowles, Les Ferdinand" with "Gary Lineker, Peter Shilton" and no doubt he will be running around the King Power high fiving the fans before the first game.
I do however, think we have lost a good manager and that we should have tried a lot harder to keep him for longer. I don't think it would have been that difficult.
On reflection, Marti did have two major bits of fortune here. 1) Following the worst manager in the history of the world, making us instantly hang on his every word, desperate to hear something erudite and motivating rather than something about being privileged to be in the same division or some sort of Haka rubbish and 2) the song. Odd to say, but it definitely helped his popularity.
I bear him no ill will whatsoever and I hope this snake rubbish is put to bed and he gets a warm reception next time we see him. However, now we have monstered Toulouse, I am firmly in the StephanWeTrust camp.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 09:00 - Jul 19 with 230 views
Can’t wait for the season to start and we can have some new ‘Martí’ threads - gonna be fantastic.
I don’t really get that people are still going on about Martí. He did a very difficult job and kept us up. Thanks Martí for pulling us out of the sh1t. I also remember a LOT of people very unhappy with our style and many ‘never seen us so bad’ quotes. I think he knew he was pushing his luck and he was going to fail sometime soon and it was time for his 2-year move on.
It must have been a known risk he would move on in 2-years, his history said that. He did it, a bit behind our back maybe (though doing it with Hoos old club was a bit laughable and I’m sure someone there would have told him and let the cat out of the bag).
I like Martí, he was a good communicator who could eke out some much needed results - a bit like Warnock - but he really wasn’t creating an exciting watch for your ‘buck’. I will take a little peak to see if that Martí bloke is all that occasionally, but it’s onwards with King Julien for now.
Great we’ve moved on now and seem to have a couple of new exciting players to look forward to. Gonna be a mixed bag for sure and definitely our usual hooped rollercoaster. All a part of the fun of being a Hoops fan isn’t it?
Forget Martí now, he’s your old girlfriend who flirted with your mate and left you. Left hurt but move in … hey who’s that French girl with the short skirt … hello, give her one, gotta go.
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