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Interesting to see what fans of Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Portsmouth,Hull and Ipswich are saying. Not supporting the selection last night but we are not alone in doing it.
2
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 09:55 - Aug 13 with 1554 views
Given some of the stuff this club’s witnessed over the last 50 years (guns in the boardroom, administration, Joey Barton’s elbow on Tevez, Harry Redknapp’s knees, Karl Henry’s political opinions, Karl Ready’s haircut, Vauxhall Motors, the list goes on) it’s a bit of a reach to claim that this marks our lowest point. If nothing else, we still tend to lose cup games even when we put our first team out.
That said, this does feel like a risky move at best, and a completely avoidable mistake at worst. Even if we needed to rest the vast majority of the first team (which raises its own questions one game into the season) surely you stick a couple of senior players on the bench to help see the game out? Going so far the other way guarantees defeat, invites lots of easy criticism, and feels like a slap in the face for travelling fans.
Playing a young team, fine. Losing in the cup, predictable enough. But for a relatively new regime who’ve just sacked a popular manager, and are trying to convince the fanbase that they’ve got the answers, it all feels a bit naive, and adds unnecessary pressure on the Watford game.
10
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:00 - Aug 13 with 1528 views
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 09:24 - Aug 13 by BklynRanger
He's on big enough money and should have enough experience to know better, but I think he's also been badly advised, or not advised at all, before that interview. Not helped by pride being the first question.
It sounded like some kind of internal conversation covering some of the priorities we all now know about, especially since the fans forum.
"Not helped by pride being the first question."
Ya, as a first question/set-up that was ill-judged alright.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 09:55 - Aug 13 by ed_83
Given some of the stuff this club’s witnessed over the last 50 years (guns in the boardroom, administration, Joey Barton’s elbow on Tevez, Harry Redknapp’s knees, Karl Henry’s political opinions, Karl Ready’s haircut, Vauxhall Motors, the list goes on) it’s a bit of a reach to claim that this marks our lowest point. If nothing else, we still tend to lose cup games even when we put our first team out.
That said, this does feel like a risky move at best, and a completely avoidable mistake at worst. Even if we needed to rest the vast majority of the first team (which raises its own questions one game into the season) surely you stick a couple of senior players on the bench to help see the game out? Going so far the other way guarantees defeat, invites lots of easy criticism, and feels like a slap in the face for travelling fans.
Playing a young team, fine. Losing in the cup, predictable enough. But for a relatively new regime who’ve just sacked a popular manager, and are trying to convince the fanbase that they’ve got the answers, it all feels a bit naive, and adds unnecessary pressure on the Watford game.
"...for a relatively new regime who’ve just sacked a popular manager, and are trying to convince the fanbase that they’ve got the answers, it all feels a bit naive, and adds unnecessary pressure on the Watford game."
That's my thinking too, Ed. Unneccessary and naive.
Plus, if this was a regime that was open and honest, and humble enough to occasionally say "ya, we might have done that slightly differently" I think that fans would be more inclined to accept and forgive, hoping that the regime would learn from it.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
It will be interesting to see if fans' indignant mood changes with the announcement of Kone. Also, if the team puts in a decent performance on Saturday with players not involved last night, will we be able to put this game behind us?
I'm as annoyed as the next person but things move on quickly at this stage of the season and we football fans are a fickle lot. However, with fans' disenchantment with Nourry becoming more entrenched, last evening's game is bound to be brought up as and when another stage of Nourry's project management goes wrong. This is not good for our club.
1
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:21 - Aug 13 with 1390 views
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 09:24 - Aug 13 by BklynRanger
He's on big enough money and should have enough experience to know better, but I think he's also been badly advised, or not advised at all, before that interview. Not helped by pride being the first question.
It sounded like some kind of internal conversation covering some of the priorities we all now know about, especially since the fans forum.
It's very clearly a strategic decision that the club will pump up the team selection last night. The coach, the media department, Nourry himself, all the bots on here - they've all been tasked with talking up the decision to play a group of kids who weren't ready for men's football. Got to keep pumping out that message, tell the world this is what we're doing now and it's a wonderful thing.
Last night was one of many low points of following QPR since 1978 and probably one of the lowest.
The only consolation is that we have put out teams in previous years with a mix of first teamers and less established players and we have lost nearly every match. However, that isn't much consolation and I've never seen a side at our level put out a team THAT inexperienced. We were lucky it wasn't a drubbing.
Suffering since 1978.
1
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:32 - Aug 13 with 1298 views
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:21 - Aug 13 by Superhoops2808
It was suggested last night that the bedwetters would have a field day - Whoever said that was not wrong reading through this forum this morning
Again, this is not about 'bedwetting'. I just don't understand the logic of going 'all in' with that squad last night - you more or less guarantee losing the game when a victory with some youngsters playing would deliver the best of both worlds and provide a nice bounce for Saturday. It smacks of arrogance frankly.
5
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:35 - Aug 13 with 1296 views
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:21 - Aug 13 by Superhoops2808
It was suggested last night that the bedwetters would have a field day - Whoever said that was not wrong reading through this forum this morning
That’s a new meaning of the term “bedwetters” for me. I didn’t realise it meant people who wanted our club to win games and progress in cup competitions.
6
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:39 - Aug 13 with 1269 views
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 00:03 - Aug 13 by stainrods_elbow
When did teams first start cheating their fans and themselves with this abject cynicism in the Cups? And what made them think they could get away with it?
I know this won't be enhance my dizzying popularity with some, but the fans turning up in nearly four figures tonight are, for me, actually part of the problem, because it means JS can thank us for our support and kid himself it was all fine. In my view, we should vote with our feet.
[Post edited 13 Aug 0:38]
[q]Although the League Cup is one of the four domestic trophies attainable by English league teams, it is regarded as of lower prestige than the league title or the FA Cup.[2] League Cup winners receive £100,000 prize money (awarded by the Football League) with the runners-up receiving £50,000, considered relatively insignificant to top-flight teams, compared to the £2 million prize money of the FA Cup, which is in turn eclipsed by the Premier League's television money (awarded on final league position) and consequent participation in the Champions League.[3][4][/q]
0
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:40 - Aug 13 with 1262 views
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 09:55 - Aug 13 by ed_83
Given some of the stuff this club’s witnessed over the last 50 years (guns in the boardroom, administration, Joey Barton’s elbow on Tevez, Harry Redknapp’s knees, Karl Henry’s political opinions, Karl Ready’s haircut, Vauxhall Motors, the list goes on) it’s a bit of a reach to claim that this marks our lowest point. If nothing else, we still tend to lose cup games even when we put our first team out.
That said, this does feel like a risky move at best, and a completely avoidable mistake at worst. Even if we needed to rest the vast majority of the first team (which raises its own questions one game into the season) surely you stick a couple of senior players on the bench to help see the game out? Going so far the other way guarantees defeat, invites lots of easy criticism, and feels like a slap in the face for travelling fans.
Playing a young team, fine. Losing in the cup, predictable enough. But for a relatively new regime who’ve just sacked a popular manager, and are trying to convince the fanbase that they’ve got the answers, it all feels a bit naive, and adds unnecessary pressure on the Watford game.
Agreed, but for context didn't Watford also lose in the cup?
0
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:43 - Aug 13 with 1231 views
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 00:03 - Aug 13 by stainrods_elbow
When did teams first start cheating their fans and themselves with this abject cynicism in the Cups? And what made them think they could get away with it?
I know this won't be enhance my dizzying popularity with some, but the fans turning up in nearly four figures tonight are, for me, actually part of the problem, because it means JS can thank us for our support and kid himself it was all fine. In my view, we should vote with our feet.
[Post edited 13 Aug 0:38]
I don't know why fans bother to pay to travel or attend to watch these cup games anymore. We know what this club thinks of cup competitions.
I doubt if I will be asked to pay my money or make the effort to attend anymore cup games.
0
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:57 - Aug 13 with 1163 views
It's all a bit of a weird one. If we had won that last night the narrative would have been quite different today, I believe. I might be wrong. There were mistakes that led to Plymouth's goals, you kind of expect it but also I believe Nardi was at fault for two of them.
I also see people saying, that it is clear that the club doesn't want to win anything. At the moment, that is true. That objective isn't even in our near future. Once again, due to mis-management we are at the beginning of another process. Finally the club has realised that we have to go back to what we always were, a selling club. Buy cheap(ish) and sell at a profit by developing players. Our team develop comes from developing young players, rather than buying ready made players. This means that sometimes, we have to use certain games to aid the long term approach. We now have an aggressive strategy with our youth players as that is where our money will come from which will hopefully in time help us to progress not only in the league but also cup competitions. I didn't have a problem with the team selection and thought many of the players did well. Thought our two centre backs showed good promise. Vale wasted and left back too. However, we should have at least had some experience either in the team or on the bench. When it got to 2-2, bring a couple of older heads on. Sadly as well, when Burrell went off, I think we were in trouble. He was a great outlet. Pace, strength but also good positioning to maximise this. The way he peeled off the centre back to get his header in for the first goal, was good. Now I watched the game from home and I applaud those who went and fully understand frustration. I know the club suggested a few youth players would get a chance but if they are going to do something like that again, maybe they should be even more transparent. So what if it gives the opponents an advantage, we kind of already are by using the game as a development tool. So now we just wait hopefully for the Kone announcement, as it would be a very good time for that news to help people forget what happened the night before. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and be emotionally invested and who am I, or who are we to ridicule that. I do believe some of the comments however are a bit too emotionally charged when talking about Nourry picking the team etc and not wanting to win. We are at the beginning of a long road, like I said and yes winning games would help us get there quicker, but if we want to have a sustainable model, then development of our youth players is a must, I just think we could have sprinkled that squad with a bit more experience last night.
4
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 11:11 - Aug 13 with 1078 views
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 09:31 - Aug 13 by JamesB1979
Good to see some of you are willing to give the guy some time. Already insulting him. This is going to be a long season. He’s had 2 games.
It is a bit more than 2 games, it is a relatively short time but if team selection was dictated to him then it is a real proper worry. If it is all Nourry then shame on him and he is a f’ing bully. And you cannot let bullies win. The manager either needs to stand up to him and tell him that he selects the team not the CEO, our whatever he is, or he needs to resign and tell the supporters why he is resigning or resigned.
Stop f’ing the supporters around……I have serious worries about this Manager and some of his decision making.
0
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 11:16 - Aug 13 with 1050 views
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:30 - Aug 13 by nadera78
It's very clearly a strategic decision that the club will pump up the team selection last night. The coach, the media department, Nourry himself, all the bots on here - they've all been tasked with talking up the decision to play a group of kids who weren't ready for men's football. Got to keep pumping out that message, tell the world this is what we're doing now and it's a wonderful thing.
'all the bots on here' Presumably that means anyone who doesn't agree with the general anti-CN narrative.
A bit of balance is a good thing. The paranoia on here is getting a bit excessive.
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 09:50 - Aug 13 by QPR_John
Interesting to see what fans of Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Portsmouth,Hull and Ipswich are saying. Not supporting the selection last night but we are not alone in doing it.
Looked like Ipswich , for example , put out a strong team and squad last night and got done over which is a completely different set of questions for their fans to ask.
Attitude and application which none of us would question of our youngsters last night.
I see the moral high ground try to be taken , with names like bedwetters etc . I get it . I don’t agree at all but I get it . It’s just a cup defeat with a very very very young side out in the grand scheme of things .
But although we are all annoyed to various degrees by losing the game , it’s the bigger picture on how and why which has annoyed a lot of people . If you’re happy and content with losing cup games then ok. If you are happy seeing our youngsters thrown in together under the cover and guise of ‘development’ then fine . That threw them under the bus more than anything . They did well considering I thought . If you are happy to see the head coach , who I really like by the way , laugh his way through a post match interview whilst mentioning the club process and project multiple times without showing any sign of disappointment then ok. And if you are happy that he is picking players to really keep the CEO happy , and I can’t think of any other reason when chasing the game he put on the subs he did …then ok .
WE WERE LOSING!!!! What’s happened here to our club and some of our fans?
It was never about winning that match and I think that’s what has got me ‘bed wetting’ this morning.
He will take the brunt of the fans ire if this starts going belly up and I really don’t want that . But the alternative is for him to start showing some individuality because at the moment it’s hard to make any other conclusion ( if you are not afraid to question what you see and witness ) that he just does what he’s told .
I don’t want that and I can’t believe Julien Stephan wants that .
The problem we all know the situation when he’s had enough and starts pushing back . He will at some point . Because that last night only damages his reputation ,
Ok, it’s been done to death. As far as I’m concerned it’s done.
But I bet the people accusing others of ‘bed wetting’ were not the ones down in Plymouth last night.
Time to look forward to Saturday .
4
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 11:40 - Aug 13 with 945 views
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:57 - Aug 13 by sdm1508
It's all a bit of a weird one. If we had won that last night the narrative would have been quite different today, I believe. I might be wrong. There were mistakes that led to Plymouth's goals, you kind of expect it but also I believe Nardi was at fault for two of them.
I also see people saying, that it is clear that the club doesn't want to win anything. At the moment, that is true. That objective isn't even in our near future. Once again, due to mis-management we are at the beginning of another process. Finally the club has realised that we have to go back to what we always were, a selling club. Buy cheap(ish) and sell at a profit by developing players. Our team develop comes from developing young players, rather than buying ready made players. This means that sometimes, we have to use certain games to aid the long term approach. We now have an aggressive strategy with our youth players as that is where our money will come from which will hopefully in time help us to progress not only in the league but also cup competitions. I didn't have a problem with the team selection and thought many of the players did well. Thought our two centre backs showed good promise. Vale wasted and left back too. However, we should have at least had some experience either in the team or on the bench. When it got to 2-2, bring a couple of older heads on. Sadly as well, when Burrell went off, I think we were in trouble. He was a great outlet. Pace, strength but also good positioning to maximise this. The way he peeled off the centre back to get his header in for the first goal, was good. Now I watched the game from home and I applaud those who went and fully understand frustration. I know the club suggested a few youth players would get a chance but if they are going to do something like that again, maybe they should be even more transparent. So what if it gives the opponents an advantage, we kind of already are by using the game as a development tool. So now we just wait hopefully for the Kone announcement, as it would be a very good time for that news to help people forget what happened the night before. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and be emotionally invested and who am I, or who are we to ridicule that. I do believe some of the comments however are a bit too emotionally charged when talking about Nourry picking the team etc and not wanting to win. We are at the beginning of a long road, like I said and yes winning games would help us get there quicker, but if we want to have a sustainable model, then development of our youth players is a must, I just think we could have sprinkled that squad with a bit more experience last night.
I genuinely don't understand the line " The club doesn't want to win anything"? Are we the only professional sporting team in the world who actively want to lose games?
0
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 11:42 - Aug 13 with 931 views
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 11:37 - Aug 13 by mart_Goblin
Looked like Ipswich , for example , put out a strong team and squad last night and got done over which is a completely different set of questions for their fans to ask.
Attitude and application which none of us would question of our youngsters last night.
I see the moral high ground try to be taken , with names like bedwetters etc . I get it . I don’t agree at all but I get it . It’s just a cup defeat with a very very very young side out in the grand scheme of things .
But although we are all annoyed to various degrees by losing the game , it’s the bigger picture on how and why which has annoyed a lot of people . If you’re happy and content with losing cup games then ok. If you are happy seeing our youngsters thrown in together under the cover and guise of ‘development’ then fine . That threw them under the bus more than anything . They did well considering I thought . If you are happy to see the head coach , who I really like by the way , laugh his way through a post match interview whilst mentioning the club process and project multiple times without showing any sign of disappointment then ok. And if you are happy that he is picking players to really keep the CEO happy , and I can’t think of any other reason when chasing the game he put on the subs he did …then ok .
WE WERE LOSING!!!! What’s happened here to our club and some of our fans?
It was never about winning that match and I think that’s what has got me ‘bed wetting’ this morning.
He will take the brunt of the fans ire if this starts going belly up and I really don’t want that . But the alternative is for him to start showing some individuality because at the moment it’s hard to make any other conclusion ( if you are not afraid to question what you see and witness ) that he just does what he’s told .
I don’t want that and I can’t believe Julien Stephan wants that .
The problem we all know the situation when he’s had enough and starts pushing back . He will at some point . Because that last night only damages his reputation ,
Ok, it’s been done to death. As far as I’m concerned it’s done.
But I bet the people accusing others of ‘bed wetting’ were not the ones down in Plymouth last night.
Time to look forward to Saturday .
He’s had 2 games
0
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 11:51 - Aug 13 with 878 views
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 10:40 - Aug 13 by nick_hammersmith
Agreed, but for context didn't Watford also lose in the cup?
Wasn't aware of this but you're right - they also put out a young team (with slightly more senior players than us), played poorly and lost to Norwich. I'm sure Saturday's taken on extra significance for them too.
Not sure that really changes our situation though. Announce Kone, beat Watford, and I'm sure everyone will forget about yet another cup loss very quickly. Sacrifice a midweek game to give the entirety of the first team a rest two games into the season, then lose at the weekend anyway, and questions inevitably start being asked.
[Post edited 13 Aug 11:52]
2
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 11:51 - Aug 13 with 879 views
I don't really like the term 'bed wetter' either if I am honest.
But I don't think it needed to be quoted multiple times for effect. In a way that is as divisive as the term itself. Life really doesn't need to be that binary. There is plenty of grey areas I am sure a lot of us can agree on.
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 11:51 - Aug 13 by CroydonCaptJack
I don't really like the term 'bed wetter' either if I am honest.
But I don't think it needed to be quoted multiple times for effect. In a way that is as divisive as the term itself. Life really doesn't need to be that binary. There is plenty of grey areas I am sure a lot of us can agree on.
[Post edited 13 Aug 11:53]
Twice. And one of them was replying to the original usage .
Anything to not address the real problems that may lurk .
Edit : apologies. 3 times . I just read it back .
Point taken
[Post edited 13 Aug 12:05]
1
Le Shrugs thoughts post Plymouth stuffing. on 12:02 - Aug 13 with 792 views
I am not a bed-wetter nor a happy clapper, both terms I dislike and find unhelpful.
I’m yet to pick up on Stephan’s mannerisms and demeanour but I suggest he looked slightly embarrassed in that interview. Rightly so, in my opinion, even if he is not (entirely) to ‘blame’ for last night’s spectacle.
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