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Marti, stick or twist? on 12:00 - Apr 20 by Northernr
Stick, by the way. To keep the thread on topic. I think he's saved this club from itself twice in two seasons.
My own view is that, maddeningly, he's been both part of the problems and part of the solutions. In other words, he's a manager who digs/falls down holes for us all, then drags us out of them. That's why I'm ambivalent - it's famine or feast with him and his team, punctuated by uber-tedious spells of anaethetising mediocrity.
With Nourry and Marti at the reins next season, I'm fairly sure it'll be more of the same.
Do I think another manager could do any better? Who knows?
It's only football, and it doesn't always bear that much analysis. Supporting a club is more like carrying a virus - it eats away at you; you live with it. There are far more important and interesting things to write about. I love QPR (and all who sail with her), but I don't respect her, and don't (that) often enjoy her. I'm sure I'm not alone, but even if I am, who cares?
Yes definitely stick. We need some continuity. Got a feeling next season will be better than this one. The dreadful start to this campaign was a shock after the way we finished last season. We need to hit the ground running next season, we can't waste the first 3 months like we have done over the past 2 seasons. Obviously, a lot depends on what happens transfer wise over the summer, but a fully fit Chair and Kelman coming back will be like two new signings. Clark Salter another.
Looking forward to seeing Morgan, Morrison and Kolli furthering their development and hopefully Madsen and Celar too. Surely we can't be as unlucky with injuries as we were this season? A fit Field and Varane too and we have the makings of a very decent side. Hopefully, we'll be seeing the culmination of what Marti's been trying to achieve here finally take shape. He knows this group of players inside out now and what we need to move forward. Who else is out there that we could seriously take a risk on? How would they do a better job with the resources and constraints that the club has? Would be a terrible gamble.
Let's hope Marti stays and we don't have to find out the answers to those questions.
[Post edited 20 Apr 18:28]
1
Marti, stick or twist? on 22:00 - Apr 20 with 2693 views
As for the problem being low expectations from the fanbase, then yes, maybe although I would call it realistic, I support QPR not f**king Barcelona. I go and watch once a week sometimes two, mainly to hang out with some friends and have a beer or two,. wtf am I meant to do to improve performances on pitch?
Also can’t understand people saying they wouldn’t want a Noury yes man in charge, so having a Manager at odds with the over arching plan (however possibly bad that plan is) is better than having someone who has bought into that plan and is actively trying to make it work?
Running a successful (relatively) football club is f**king hard, which is why few clubs manage to achieve it.
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Marti, stick or twist? on 22:33 - Apr 20 with 2524 views
Marti, stick or twist? on 22:00 - Apr 20 by loftupper
It’s definitely a stick for me.
As for the problem being low expectations from the fanbase, then yes, maybe although I would call it realistic, I support QPR not f**king Barcelona. I go and watch once a week sometimes two, mainly to hang out with some friends and have a beer or two,. wtf am I meant to do to improve performances on pitch?
Also can’t understand people saying they wouldn’t want a Noury yes man in charge, so having a Manager at odds with the over arching plan (however possibly bad that plan is) is better than having someone who has bought into that plan and is actively trying to make it work?
Running a successful (relatively) football club is f**king hard, which is why few clubs manage to achieve it.
It's more the case that running a 'successful' club (how ever you define 'successful') is something only a small number of clubs can be/come - even though the likes of Spurs, Chelsea, Man U, etc. etc. all think they 'should' be winning the top prizes every season. No one's allowed to be a loser, or even mediocre, any longer, even though most clubs are by definition the latter.
As always, it depends on what you consider to be successful, what your expectations are, what you get out of the support you give, how you invest your time and what you invest it in.
I’d imagine that Brentford and Brighton fans consider their clubs to be successful. Extremely so considering what they have achieved - but realistic too, unlike Spurs and other self proclaimed ‘big clubs.’
I’d also add Leicester to that list during the period when they won the Prem. Clearly not as successful now but they had their time in the sun too.
Personally, I think that I have relatively low expectations given the clubs inconsistency over the years. So every now and again, I am pleasantly surprised and genuinely happy about some performances and players.
What flummoxes me is the lack of a cohesive plan that we can execute against given the reserves we have. That’s all Brighton and Brentford had, along with some smart business people running the clubs.
If the plan is the right one and the right people are aligned, then happy days. If the plan changes and there’s no alignment, then shite tends to happen and we tend to see that manifest on the pitch, in the void(s) of club communication and occasionally in the directors box.
When we play the right system with the right players (I know they have to be available and healthy), then we can put together a decent string of results. Play off levels in average point tallies.
When we appear to play a system that doesn’t suit us, but is in fact the game model - we get close to relegation form.
I think that conflict is between the manager and the CEO, who do not appear to be aligned. Something has to change - either a person or the relationship with some form of compromise on the game model.
Replacing the manager with a yes man that has to implement a game model with the wrong players will not fix it. For example, they’ll keep trying to pass out from Nardi and we’ll end up conceding like Southampton unless the players can play that way.
Southampton = not a successful team this season.
So, I hope we keep Marti but something has to change with Nourry to make it work. If not, eventually, we’ll get someone that Nourry wants and he will play Nourry’s system (game model), probably with similar players unless we experience a financial miracle on the scale of The Big Short, at Easter, aligned with Trump’s removal from office and Putin’s resignation.
There’s that damned hope again.
Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
0
Marti, stick or twist? on 09:33 - Apr 21 with 2343 views
Must admit when this was posted on Friday I was surprised and disappointed but what it has done is create some interesting debate which is totally what the forum should be about.
I'm 100% in the Dorse stick camp Marti has been a breath of fresh air as a manager and more importantly coach, on the day I had my training ground tour it was interesting watching him working intensely with the players, sadly that bit was cut short I would have happily stood and watched him for a long time. Made me think back to the days of Honest Harry who got all the plaudits for getting a team promoted by staying in his office and fixing any dip in form by recruiting even more players, we now have somebody who works with the squad he's given.
The recruitment in the Summer was very mixed, it appeared very analytical based and we looked at leagues outside of the UK, this was something the majority had been asking for over a few seasons. However what we ended up doing was giving Marti a squad that had a lot of players without Championship experience and expecting them to hit the ground running. I guess I'm in a minority on here because I don't think the Championship is a s hit league, it's a very tough league, where you need players to be robust and give 100% against some very physically strong teams.
It takes time for players to adapt to the physicality of the Championship, it seemed very evident in the case of some of the new recruits that they were never going to hit the ground running as the saying goes, they needed time to adapt and I can't help feeling that was a big contributory factor to the awful start we had to the season. Marti has continually worked hard with the squad he has been given, what input he had is still up for debate and has suffered from a lot of injuries to the players, always looking for a solution.
Stick or twist jeez we should be more worried about him getting poached by another club, I can't see Leicester sticking with Ruud, they have money and that in turn supplies a better player, I hope Nourry gets his act together and makes sure Marti knows he's wanted and works hard at a good relationship with him.
[Post edited 21 Apr 9:37]
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Marti, stick or twist? on 09:51 - Apr 21 with 2289 views
As always, it depends on what you consider to be successful, what your expectations are, what you get out of the support you give, how you invest your time and what you invest it in.
I’d imagine that Brentford and Brighton fans consider their clubs to be successful. Extremely so considering what they have achieved - but realistic too, unlike Spurs and other self proclaimed ‘big clubs.’
I’d also add Leicester to that list during the period when they won the Prem. Clearly not as successful now but they had their time in the sun too.
Personally, I think that I have relatively low expectations given the clubs inconsistency over the years. So every now and again, I am pleasantly surprised and genuinely happy about some performances and players.
What flummoxes me is the lack of a cohesive plan that we can execute against given the reserves we have. That’s all Brighton and Brentford had, along with some smart business people running the clubs.
If the plan is the right one and the right people are aligned, then happy days. If the plan changes and there’s no alignment, then shite tends to happen and we tend to see that manifest on the pitch, in the void(s) of club communication and occasionally in the directors box.
When we play the right system with the right players (I know they have to be available and healthy), then we can put together a decent string of results. Play off levels in average point tallies.
When we appear to play a system that doesn’t suit us, but is in fact the game model - we get close to relegation form.
I think that conflict is between the manager and the CEO, who do not appear to be aligned. Something has to change - either a person or the relationship with some form of compromise on the game model.
Replacing the manager with a yes man that has to implement a game model with the wrong players will not fix it. For example, they’ll keep trying to pass out from Nardi and we’ll end up conceding like Southampton unless the players can play that way.
Southampton = not a successful team this season.
So, I hope we keep Marti but something has to change with Nourry to make it work. If not, eventually, we’ll get someone that Nourry wants and he will play Nourry’s system (game model), probably with similar players unless we experience a financial miracle on the scale of The Big Short, at Easter, aligned with Trump’s removal from office and Putin’s resignation.
There’s that damned hope again.
"What flummoxes me is the lack of a cohesive plan that we can execute against given the reserves we have. That’s all Brighton and Brentford had, along with some smart business people running the clubs.
If the plan is the right one and the right people are aligned, then happy days. If the plan changes and there’s no alignment, then shite tends to happen and we tend to see that manifest on the pitch, in the void(s) of club communication and occasionally in the directors box."
The Ipswich Town CEO talked about this in an interview with The Price of Football just after they had been promoted from League 1:
"The problem with the Championship is really simple," he explained. "It’s emotion.
"You’re in a division that is one step away from the golden ticket, one step away from the Premier League, where everyone wants to be and it’s one step away from that huge financial gain of getting across the line and into the Premier League.
"What happens is, you have a plan, and a lot of clubs don’t stick to their plan in the Championship because they start to get close towards either the play-offs or automatic promotion and then the model changes because they overstretch and overreach."
Right have to pile in on this. Massive massive stick with him. This season injuries have been awful, the conditioning team need changing or at least a kick up the back side. Any one who supports this team over the years and can't see that MC is by far the best and most encouraging prospects of a manager we have had in years, needs there head checked. This man is capable of building a Brentford type outfit here. Give him time, look at the stats if our usually good home form was replicated and a few loses converted to draws then we are not to far of the 13 points needed.. Yes the dreadful runs need to stop, park the bus park the tank, iron dome, Berlin Wall or just try and play 12 but stop the long losing runs. There is a pattern here change it stop.it. We need to score more goals that's with out doubt is needed as well. Not one for stats but
See home form needs an uptick and goals that would have grabbed us possibly points to be near the playoffs who knows we could sneak it next year. I know it's easier said than done but surely most can see that MC is the closest we have had to someone who can do it since Warbs and Sharon? Give him time and the great support which is massively impressive to me. Possibly a nice cup run and we will have a much better season. The mind set of the whole club must chamge yes as MC has said and it will.. He needs time to build a club and a team the ethos has always been here. We need to.function as coherent unit ie board, management,, staff, fans a well oiled machine. Next year with more goals scored by us no losing runs, be very hard to beat at home (fortress Loftus attitude) loud fan base. Slightly better away record and we are in with a shot of playoffs. Honestly I do go on and know rangers from old but MC is the right fit he tactically knows what he is doing. Yes he has made mistakes but surely it can be seen by .most what he is trying to do trying to get to, a style of play, a club a team a united slick well oiled machine that is this real fans real club of nutty ness Right of to take meds ..... nurse
Either way Clive thanks so much. I wish you the best cartwheels ever. You run a amazing site and if fan forums were rated LFW would be premiership. Please ignore the doubters and nay sayers, keep going,
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Marti, stick or twist? on 10:02 - Apr 21 with 2214 views
Marti, stick or twist? on 11:37 - Apr 20 by Northernr
Having run the place so appallingly that it's still here and thriving after 20+ years while basically all the other QPR message boards have died off around it, I might treat myself to a little cartwheel or two. After all, just imagine how well it'll go when I finally get my act together and reach your self-proclaimed standards.
Strange response, Notthern, since I myself had written recently that LfW is the best Rs chatroom on the web, (and that has, I think, special signficance coming from me given the brickbats that come my way from the usual suspects). Guess you must have missed that memo.
Marti, stick or twist? on 12:49 - Apr 20 by connell10
I'd stick with him , I think he has done well, oh and Stainrod if you really dislike most of the people posting on here and you don't Iike the way Clive runs the board then why don't you f uck off and find another board? I think you deep down like playing the pantomime villian and I'll be honest I actually find some of your over the top reactions hilarious 😂.
Hilarious, and more than a little embarrassing, that it's apparently been 'decided' that I 'despise everyone' on LfW. As per the shield, I don't know whether to laugh or cry, so maybe I'll do both. It's just silly, really.
Marti, stick or twist? on 09:51 - Apr 21 by KensalT
"What flummoxes me is the lack of a cohesive plan that we can execute against given the reserves we have. That’s all Brighton and Brentford had, along with some smart business people running the clubs.
If the plan is the right one and the right people are aligned, then happy days. If the plan changes and there’s no alignment, then shite tends to happen and we tend to see that manifest on the pitch, in the void(s) of club communication and occasionally in the directors box."
The Ipswich Town CEO talked about this in an interview with The Price of Football just after they had been promoted from League 1:
"The problem with the Championship is really simple," he explained. "It’s emotion.
"You’re in a division that is one step away from the golden ticket, one step away from the Premier League, where everyone wants to be and it’s one step away from that huge financial gain of getting across the line and into the Premier League.
"What happens is, you have a plan, and a lot of clubs don’t stick to their plan in the Championship because they start to get close towards either the play-offs or automatic promotion and then the model changes because they overstretch and overreach."
That's certainly what we did for Mark Warburton's final season. And other clubs have probably made the same mistake.
Brighton and Brentford stuck to their plan but it took a long time to work and they both had a few near misses before they got over the line.
[Post edited 21 Apr 10:37]
Agree with you.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face, right ?
We seem to have a plan (game model) but not the players for the plan. Maybe that’s just more time, money and patience required. Meantime, we could be utilising what we have better - by just being more pragmatic.
Take Friday, we were behind (and very nearly 2:0 down) until we changed players and system. Then we won. Ok, it’s very different when chasing the game and maybe you don’t start with three at the back but one change and the game changes.
Overly simplistic I know - impractical for every game also but that could be a simple answer to the question posed here, which was stick or twist.
If the manager can’t implement a system that’s suits the players we have, then he’s not going to be very successful and therefore the club can’t progress.
Hence a compromise is required - change the system until you have the players, or change the manager and make them play the system, even if it’s in the division below, until it you have the players.
My preference is to change the system whilst we find the right players, rather than change the manager, assuming he stays.
Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
0
Marti, stick or twist? on 10:08 - Apr 21 with 2221 views
Right have to pile in on this. Massive massive stick with him. This season injuries have been awful, the conditioning team need changing or at least a kick up the back side. Any one who supports this team over the years and can't see that MC is by far the best and most encouraging prospects of a manager we have had in years, needs there head checked. This man is capable of building a Brentford type outfit here. Give him time, look at the stats if our usually good home form was replicated and a few loses converted to draws then we are not to far of the 13 points needed.. Yes the dreadful runs need to stop, park the bus park the tank, iron dome, Berlin Wall or just try and play 12 but stop the long losing runs. There is a pattern here change it stop.it. We need to score more goals that's with out doubt is needed as well. Not one for stats but
See home form needs an uptick and goals that would have grabbed us possibly points to be near the playoffs who knows we could sneak it next year. I know it's easier said than done but surely most can see that MC is the closest we have had to someone who can do it since Warbs and Sharon? Give him time and the great support which is massively impressive to me. Possibly a nice cup run and we will have a much better season. The mind set of the whole club must chamge yes as MC has said and it will.. He needs time to build a club and a team the ethos has always been here. We need to.function as coherent unit ie board, management,, staff, fans a well oiled machine. Next year with more goals scored by us no losing runs, be very hard to beat at home (fortress Loftus attitude) loud fan base. Slightly better away record and we are in with a shot of playoffs. Honestly I do go on and know rangers from old but MC is the right fit he tactically knows what he is doing. Yes he has made mistakes but surely it can be seen by .most what he is trying to do trying to get to, a style of play, a club a team a united slick well oiled machine that is this real fans real club of nutty ness Right of to take meds ..... nurse
Either way Clive thanks so much. I wish you the best cartwheels ever. You run a amazing site and if fan forums were rated LFW would be premiership. Please ignore the doubters and nay sayers, keep going,
Right just seen this on another post have to post here as will save you reading my earlier waffle ¹
Everything spot on. Basically this is why we keep him.for years and years he will build a club its what he wants and can do.
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Marti, stick or twist? on 10:13 - Apr 21 with 2199 views
Marti, stick or twist? on 12:49 - Apr 20 by connell10
I'd stick with him , I think he has done well, oh and Stainrod if you really dislike most of the people posting on here and you don't Iike the way Clive runs the board then why don't you f uck off and find another board? I think you deep down like playing the pantomime villian and I'll be honest I actually find some of your over the top reactions hilarious 😂.
Here's another unfortunate newsflash for someone who knows nothing of me - I don't 'play' anyone or anything, I'm not that clever, egotistical, or performative. Meanwhile, I'll go on enjoying the bile of those one or two who please to see themselves as my whiter-than-white judges and jurists. No bile or ego in them, no sirree.
Even though it's football, a fan board, and ridiculously trivial, when one looks at what's happening in the real world. Let's all go and read a newspaper.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face, right ?
We seem to have a plan (game model) but not the players for the plan. Maybe that’s just more time, money and patience required. Meantime, we could be utilising what we have better - by just being more pragmatic.
Take Friday, we were behind (and very nearly 2:0 down) until we changed players and system. Then we won. Ok, it’s very different when chasing the game and maybe you don’t start with three at the back but one change and the game changes.
Overly simplistic I know - impractical for every game also but that could be a simple answer to the question posed here, which was stick or twist.
If the manager can’t implement a system that’s suits the players we have, then he’s not going to be very successful and therefore the club can’t progress.
Hence a compromise is required - change the system until you have the players, or change the manager and make them play the system, even if it’s in the division below, until it you have the players.
My preference is to change the system whilst we find the right players, rather than change the manager, assuming he stays.
The key for me is that Brighton and Brentford stuck to their plan even though it took several years to pay off.
Maybe it's easier to believe in the plan when you're coming up from League 1 having spent decades away from the top division. The fans have already seen one promotion and are happy with steady progress.
For us, we came down to this division. Mentally we were probably still comparing ourselves to PL teams. Desperate to get back. And worried about how far we are falling behind the PL.
So when we feel ourselves getting close there's more willingness to go all in and have a mad dash at it.
But when the mad dash doesn't work you're back to square one. Again!
1
Marti, stick or twist? on 10:53 - Apr 21 with 2033 views
Marti, stick or twist? on 10:36 - Apr 21 by KensalT
The key for me is that Brighton and Brentford stuck to their plan even though it took several years to pay off.
Maybe it's easier to believe in the plan when you're coming up from League 1 having spent decades away from the top division. The fans have already seen one promotion and are happy with steady progress.
For us, we came down to this division. Mentally we were probably still comparing ourselves to PL teams. Desperate to get back. And worried about how far we are falling behind the PL.
So when we feel ourselves getting close there's more willingness to go all in and have a mad dash at it.
But when the mad dash doesn't work you're back to square one. Again!
5 year plan anyone ? Anyone ?
Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
2
Marti, stick or twist? on 10:58 - Apr 21 with 2012 views
Marti, stick or twist? on 10:36 - Apr 21 by KensalT
The key for me is that Brighton and Brentford stuck to their plan even though it took several years to pay off.
Maybe it's easier to believe in the plan when you're coming up from League 1 having spent decades away from the top division. The fans have already seen one promotion and are happy with steady progress.
For us, we came down to this division. Mentally we were probably still comparing ourselves to PL teams. Desperate to get back. And worried about how far we are falling behind the PL.
So when we feel ourselves getting close there's more willingness to go all in and have a mad dash at it.
But when the mad dash doesn't work you're back to square one. Again!
Totally agree, stick to the plan. Lots of mentions about Brightn and Brentford, two clubs who are in the same bracket as us, but have been very well run. By having a long term plan not only have they gone to the PL, they are staying there. Too many reams, yes you Burnley, Sheff Utd etc, get promoted, but don't stay as there is no forward planning. I really hope MC stays so that he eventually can have a squad of players he can really utilise. 2026/27 onwards is when we should be expecting sustained playoff pushes and then it'll eventually happen.
0
Marti, stick or twist? on 11:23 - Apr 21 with 1950 views
I was at Brentford v Brighton on Saturday (free tix) and on that game it's hard to see how Brighton are 10th. They ended up taking Wellbeck off and then took a page straight out of the Ian Holloway school of game management by putting their gigantor centre-back up front and cannoning long balls up to him.
0
Marti, stick or twist? on 11:48 - Apr 21 with 1865 views
Marti, stick or twist? on 22:00 - Apr 20 by loftupper
It’s definitely a stick for me.
As for the problem being low expectations from the fanbase, then yes, maybe although I would call it realistic, I support QPR not f**king Barcelona. I go and watch once a week sometimes two, mainly to hang out with some friends and have a beer or two,. wtf am I meant to do to improve performances on pitch?
Also can’t understand people saying they wouldn’t want a Noury yes man in charge, so having a Manager at odds with the over arching plan (however possibly bad that plan is) is better than having someone who has bought into that plan and is actively trying to make it work?
Running a successful (relatively) football club is f**king hard, which is why few clubs manage to achieve it.
Great post .
0
Marti, stick or twist? on 13:40 - Apr 21 with 1711 views
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