| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:07 - Jul 11 with 4374 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 09:44 - Jul 11 by nix |
Not if you're using league placements as evidence though.
They didn't reach those placements having spent the same money as us.
Our issue is not our current management it's the past where we spunked our Prem and parachute cash money. We're doing okay now given our current income. They didn't spunk their Prem income so they've always got players to sell. But they should be doing better on the pitch IMO. |
Again, I'm not saying they're getting value for the money they're outlaying - they're not, we're getting far better. The debate here is about sustainability with some alluding to 'our way' being more sustainable and safe than theirs. That's what I object to, because it isn't.
To put it from a QPR perspective rather than a Norwich one, we're racking up essentially the exact same losses as them despite having SIGNIFICANTLY less money coming in. How is that more sustainable?
Over the last two seasons (discounting their last parachute payment income season) if both clubs decided they were unwilling to make a loss and operate cost neutrally, Norwich would have a playing budget of £53.5m, QPR would have a playing budget of £7.7m. Their cost-neutral budget would be higher than our ACTUAL budget where we push losses to the P&S limit.
Norwich ELECT to make those losses because their owners are willing to make them to try to maximise their chances of success. QPR HAVE to make their losses because if they didn't they'd have the budget of a League One club (at best) and relegation would absolutely be an inevitability. [Post edited 11 Jul 10:07]
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:20 - Jul 11 with 4303 views | nix |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:07 - Jul 11 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Again, I'm not saying they're getting value for the money they're outlaying - they're not, we're getting far better. The debate here is about sustainability with some alluding to 'our way' being more sustainable and safe than theirs. That's what I object to, because it isn't.
To put it from a QPR perspective rather than a Norwich one, we're racking up essentially the exact same losses as them despite having SIGNIFICANTLY less money coming in. How is that more sustainable?
Over the last two seasons (discounting their last parachute payment income season) if both clubs decided they were unwilling to make a loss and operate cost neutrally, Norwich would have a playing budget of £53.5m, QPR would have a playing budget of £7.7m. Their cost-neutral budget would be higher than our ACTUAL budget where we push losses to the P&S limit.
Norwich ELECT to make those losses because their owners are willing to make them to try to maximise their chances of success. QPR HAVE to make their losses because if they didn't they'd have the budget of a League One club (at best) and relegation would absolutely be an inevitability. [Post edited 11 Jul 10:07]
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Yes I agree we're not sustainable, although you confused the point in your PP by alluding to league placements. But how much of Norwich's current finances are down to good previous financial management and how much of ours is down to previous piss poor management?
Also they're not just being judged on turnover but how wisely you spend the money you currently have. |  | | |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:28 - Jul 11 with 4270 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:20 - Jul 11 by nix |
Yes I agree we're not sustainable, although you confused the point in your PP by alluding to league placements. But how much of Norwich's current finances are down to good previous financial management and how much of ours is down to previous piss poor management?
Also they're not just being judged on turnover but how wisely you spend the money you currently have. |
"These club's are nuts doing what they are doin, it's absolute madness. All the club's that have been or are now struggling financially should be huge wake-up call, yet still more lemmings prepare to jump into financial oblivion.
I am dead chuffed with what we are doing, and though it has taken a good few years, we are no longer the biggest basket case in the league."
This is why I stuck my nose in. This is wildly misrepresentative of what's happening out there and almost works as propaganda to some that glance at a thread like this, read these claims and go away safe in the knowledge we're a wonderful financial beacon the rest of the league should aspire to.
Some of the soundbites on this article also terrify me:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cdr33me2lxxo
"Tony: It's not so important as to who the manger is. The real issue is the board giving that manager money to buy quality players and especially a striker, that will make a difference."
"Paul: After 49 years of attending and actively supporting this club, my passion has gone. The current owners refuse to invest, even with Cifuentes' inspirational efforts: they treat the club like a trophy girlfriend."
Clearly there's a significant proportion of our fans that think we're financially similar to a club like Norwich and we either should be 'investing' as much as them or they shouldn't be spending any more than us. It's just not the case. We're in a different financial league no matter the circumstance that led to it and people don't seem to realise. [Post edited 11 Jul 10:39]
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:32 - Jul 11 with 4235 views | francisbowles |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:28 - Jul 11 by Padulas_Shampoo |
"These club's are nuts doing what they are doin, it's absolute madness. All the club's that have been or are now struggling financially should be huge wake-up call, yet still more lemmings prepare to jump into financial oblivion.
I am dead chuffed with what we are doing, and though it has taken a good few years, we are no longer the biggest basket case in the league."
This is why I stuck my nose in. This is wildly misrepresentative of what's happening out there and almost works as propaganda to some that glance at a thread like this, read these claims and go away safe in the knowledge we're a wonderful financial beacon the rest of the league should aspire to.
Some of the soundbites on this article also terrify me:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cdr33me2lxxo
"Tony: It's not so important as to who the manger is. The real issue is the board giving that manager money to buy quality players and especially a striker, that will make a difference."
"Paul: After 49 years of attending and actively supporting this club, my passion has gone. The current owners refuse to invest, even with Cifuentes' inspirational efforts: they treat the club like a trophy girlfriend."
Clearly there's a significant proportion of our fans that think we're financially similar to a club like Norwich and we either should be 'investing' as much as them or they shouldn't be spending any more than us. It's just not the case. We're in a different financial league no matter the circumstance that led to it and people don't seem to realise. [Post edited 11 Jul 10:39]
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I read those quotes and had the same reaction. Unfortunately, there was no response and therefore no mention of FFP or £2 million a month. |  | | |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:38 - Jul 11 with 4207 views | nix |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:28 - Jul 11 by Padulas_Shampoo |
"These club's are nuts doing what they are doin, it's absolute madness. All the club's that have been or are now struggling financially should be huge wake-up call, yet still more lemmings prepare to jump into financial oblivion.
I am dead chuffed with what we are doing, and though it has taken a good few years, we are no longer the biggest basket case in the league."
This is why I stuck my nose in. This is wildly misrepresentative of what's happening out there and almost works as propaganda to some that glance at a thread like this, read these claims and go away safe in the knowledge we're a wonderful financial beacon the rest of the league should aspire to.
Some of the soundbites on this article also terrify me:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cdr33me2lxxo
"Tony: It's not so important as to who the manger is. The real issue is the board giving that manager money to buy quality players and especially a striker, that will make a difference."
"Paul: After 49 years of attending and actively supporting this club, my passion has gone. The current owners refuse to invest, even with Cifuentes' inspirational efforts: they treat the club like a trophy girlfriend."
Clearly there's a significant proportion of our fans that think we're financially similar to a club like Norwich and we either should be 'investing' as much as them or they shouldn't be spending any more than us. It's just not the case. We're in a different financial league no matter the circumstance that led to it and people don't seem to realise. [Post edited 11 Jul 10:39]
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Oh god those idiots drive me mad. In that case I totally agree with you. | | | |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:47 - Jul 11 with 4126 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 08:47 - Jul 11 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Over the same time period they have earned £282.3m. We have earned £71.3m.
Our losses represent 82% of our turnover, their losses represent 21% of theirs.
Would you rather service a £5k credit card debt with a salary of £71k or £282k?
Yet somehow we're the ones doing it right and they're the 'basket case'. |
Fair enough.
I do think the direction of travel is changing though. We have had to work incredibly hard to get our costs down over the last few years and come up with a more sustainable model. You have highlighted what we are up against well there, so to finish in a similar league position deserves some plaudits. |  |
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 12:19 - Jul 11 with 3961 views | slmrstid |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:28 - Jul 11 by Padulas_Shampoo |
"These club's are nuts doing what they are doin, it's absolute madness. All the club's that have been or are now struggling financially should be huge wake-up call, yet still more lemmings prepare to jump into financial oblivion.
I am dead chuffed with what we are doing, and though it has taken a good few years, we are no longer the biggest basket case in the league."
This is why I stuck my nose in. This is wildly misrepresentative of what's happening out there and almost works as propaganda to some that glance at a thread like this, read these claims and go away safe in the knowledge we're a wonderful financial beacon the rest of the league should aspire to.
Some of the soundbites on this article also terrify me:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cdr33me2lxxo
"Tony: It's not so important as to who the manger is. The real issue is the board giving that manager money to buy quality players and especially a striker, that will make a difference."
"Paul: After 49 years of attending and actively supporting this club, my passion has gone. The current owners refuse to invest, even with Cifuentes' inspirational efforts: they treat the club like a trophy girlfriend."
Clearly there's a significant proportion of our fans that think we're financially similar to a club like Norwich and we either should be 'investing' as much as them or they shouldn't be spending any more than us. It's just not the case. We're in a different financial league no matter the circumstance that led to it and people don't seem to realise. [Post edited 11 Jul 10:39]
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Absolutely, and I think Clive alludes to this in his conversation with Gab Sutton. Supporter wise we have an expectation that we should be a top flight club, or at least a high flying club in this league, due to our history over the past 30-40 years, whereas by all economic realities these days we're a League One club punching about our weight and its a very difficult balance to join up those two.
When you look at it, so many clubs have overtaken us in the past couple of decades in new/redeveloped stadiums whilst we still rattle around our tin shed, its remarkable we're still here. |  | | |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 18:37 - Jul 12 with 3552 views | rbee |
Watching other clubs overtake us the past ten years or so has been very disappointing. Thank you Uncle Tony.
As for our place in the football food chain that might be different without Profit and Sustainability, who knows.
I see that Luton have signed Nahki Wells from Bristol City. You know given our unpredictable front line I would not have complained too loudly if we had nabbed him. |  | | |
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 18:47 - Jul 12 with 3512 views | kensalriser |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 18:37 - Jul 12 by rbee |
Watching other clubs overtake us the past ten years or so has been very disappointing. Thank you Uncle Tony.
As for our place in the football food chain that might be different without Profit and Sustainability, who knows.
I see that Luton have signed Nahki Wells from Bristol City. You know given our unpredictable front line I would not have complained too loudly if we had nabbed him. |
Wells' contract had expired. |  |
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:04 - Jul 13 with 3207 views | eastside_r |
Not Championship but I see that Andy Carroll (36) has just signed for Dagenham & Redbridge (spit) in the sixth tier of the pyramid. |  | | |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 19:29 - Jul 13 with 2922 views | aston_hoop |
Bristol City's keeper is injured for 3 to 4 months, meaning as things stand, Joe Lumley will be their number 1 coming into the season. |  |
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 19:36 - Jul 13 with 2882 views | dmm |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 19:29 - Jul 13 by aston_hoop |
Bristol City's keeper is injured for 3 to 4 months, meaning as things stand, Joe Lumley will be their number 1 coming into the season. |
And we play them on 4th October... |  | | |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 22:01 - Jul 14 with 2404 views | aston_hoop |
Massimo Luongo training with Millwall. Don't worry, I'm fully ready to be shot down for this, but I'd take him over Colback. | |
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 22:15 - Jul 14 with 2351 views | dannyblue |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 22:01 - Jul 14 by aston_hoop |
Massimo Luongo training with Millwall. Don't worry, I'm fully ready to be shot down for this, but I'd take him over Colback. |
I’d take Sam Morsy over colback. I was disappointed we didn’t take him when Wigan (?) went down. |  | | |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 12:45 - Jul 15 with 2077 views | Loyalitat |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 19:29 - Jul 13 by aston_hoop |
Bristol City's keeper is injured for 3 to 4 months, meaning as things stand, Joe Lumley will be their number 1 coming into the season. |
He may be the subject of ridicule amongst some of our fanbase, not you, Aston Hoop. However, for someone who came through our system, he's not had a bad career. 150+ games in the championship is nothing to be scoffed at.
It will be interesting to see how many of our current crop of Nourry youth/younger prospects play as many games at this level as Lumley. I suspect not too many. | | | |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 15:30 - Jul 15 with 1852 views | francisbowles |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 22:01 - Jul 14 by aston_hoop |
Massimo Luongo training with Millwall. Don't worry, I'm fully ready to be shot down for this, but I'd take him over Colback. |
It's only just over a year since he was a regular on a promotion winning team. I like to see us at least make enquiries. | | | |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 15:33 - Jul 15 with 1831 views | wombat |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 15:30 - Jul 15 by francisbowles |
It's only just over a year since he was a regular on a promotion winning team. I like to see us at least make enquiries. |
we might hes australian , so fits this season criteria for buying players , if take him back as cover in midfield as well |  |
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 15:42 - Jul 15 with 1778 views | LazyFan |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 22:01 - Jul 14 by aston_hoop |
Massimo Luongo training with Millwall. Don't worry, I'm fully ready to be shot down for this, but I'd take him over Colback. |
Which shows why Coback should not be renewed if we can get just as good but younger and possibly for less.
Especially as Colback, while skilful and tactically aware, is too slow getting up and down the pitch now, and that's when he's fit, which is only for half a season.
Remember the Champ is run run run.
Everyone runs, Chair runs, Frey runs, Smyth runs, Dunne runs, everyone runs, no matter the skill. Which is why Madsen has so far failed as he does not run enough. |  |
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 15:45 - Jul 15 with 1755 views | LazyFan |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 18:47 - Jul 12 by kensalriser |
Wells' contract had expired. |
Yeah, but he would want a sign-on fee and will rake it in on large wages as they still have parachute payments. We should not do that, which is why we did not spunk £5m on him when Brizzle signed him.
In addition, not that far away, and they have Isaiah Jones, who will supply him all the chances. Not to mention whoever else they sign. It will be similar to Brum's performance last season in L1.
Makes it more challenging for Cardiff and Reading to return :) | |
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 15:48 - Jul 15 with 1739 views | LazyFan |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 10:07 - Jul 11 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Again, I'm not saying they're getting value for the money they're outlaying - they're not, we're getting far better. The debate here is about sustainability with some alluding to 'our way' being more sustainable and safe than theirs. That's what I object to, because it isn't.
To put it from a QPR perspective rather than a Norwich one, we're racking up essentially the exact same losses as them despite having SIGNIFICANTLY less money coming in. How is that more sustainable?
Over the last two seasons (discounting their last parachute payment income season) if both clubs decided they were unwilling to make a loss and operate cost neutrally, Norwich would have a playing budget of £53.5m, QPR would have a playing budget of £7.7m. Their cost-neutral budget would be higher than our ACTUAL budget where we push losses to the P&S limit.
Norwich ELECT to make those losses because their owners are willing to make them to try to maximise their chances of success. QPR HAVE to make their losses because if they didn't they'd have the budget of a League One club (at best) and relegation would absolutely be an inevitability. [Post edited 11 Jul 10:07]
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Didn't Norwich have parachute payments for 3 years?
Then they bought a lot of young players with that (rather than paying off excessive prem wages, which is the mistake we made going up and down); they have now sold these off.
This is the last pay-off season for them; if they don't go up, then they will be heading in our direction, which will be very painful for them.
Burnley were stupid paying for Sargent, I don't think he's very good (despite his stats). I think Burnley has made a mistake there. Parker will be sacked by November, me thinks. | |
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 15:53 - Jul 15 with 1713 views | Loft1979 |
Good shout. |  | | |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 15:57 - Jul 15 with 1697 views | kensalriser |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 15:45 - Jul 15 by LazyFan |
Yeah, but he would want a sign-on fee and will rake it in on large wages as they still have parachute payments. We should not do that, which is why we did not spunk £5m on him when Brizzle signed him.
In addition, not that far away, and they have Isaiah Jones, who will supply him all the chances. Not to mention whoever else they sign. It will be similar to Brum's performance last season in L1.
Makes it more challenging for Cardiff and Reading to return :) |
The point was more that he wasn't signed from Bristol C as he was a free agent.
And I wasn't suggesting for a second he would be a good option for us. He will be for Luton though, as long as he stays fit he'll score plenty in L1. | |
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 15:58 - Jul 15 with 1679 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 15:48 - Jul 15 by LazyFan |
Didn't Norwich have parachute payments for 3 years?
Then they bought a lot of young players with that (rather than paying off excessive prem wages, which is the mistake we made going up and down); they have now sold these off.
This is the last pay-off season for them; if they don't go up, then they will be heading in our direction, which will be very painful for them.
Burnley were stupid paying for Sargent, I don't think he's very good (despite his stats). I think Burnley has made a mistake there. Parker will be sacked by November, me thinks. |
This was my point. Norwich paying £Xm for a player is not sustainable.
Parachute payments have ended, they finished near us with them and they haven't built a squad capable of promotion.
Who has Norwich as promotion contenders? | |
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| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 16:12 - Jul 15 with 1613 views | cyprusmel |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 15:42 - Jul 15 by LazyFan |
Which shows why Coback should not be renewed if we can get just as good but younger and possibly for less.
Especially as Colback, while skilful and tactically aware, is too slow getting up and down the pitch now, and that's when he's fit, which is only for half a season.
Remember the Champ is run run run.
Everyone runs, Chair runs, Frey runs, Smyth runs, Dunne runs, everyone runs, no matter the skill. Which is why Madsen has so far failed as he does not run enough. |
Madsen. I cannot understand why a player who is 6' 4" rarely ever heads the ball he should be right in the mix at corners not taking them.
For me, we need better than him, not convinced at all. | | | |
| Rest of the Championship thread 25/26 on 16:25 - Jul 15 with 1547 views | DavieQPR |
Lots of mentions of clubs that have overtaken us but very little of the clubs that have gone the other way like Wimbledon, Luton, Oldham etc. |  | | |
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