| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF 18:22 - Aug 30 with 23018 views | gazza1 |
Madsen is a decent footballer and far far better player than the uneducated supporter on this very MB can see. Selected again today to start and played another decent match adding to the opening game against PNE where he did a decent job as well. He was OK against Watford as well despite being ‘singled out’ as poor, etc, etc – he was not poor in ‘my book’. MB people need to actually look at what he does well. Left out at Coventry but soon introduced from half time replacing ‘fans favorite’ Morgan who was so so poor in the first half giving Coventry at least two of the goals that we conceded & giving the ball away time after time and very overrated generally by many posters.
Going back to today, he played next to Varane in a near defensive type role, he took many dead ball situations, and took them well, including a well saved free kick, some of his forward passes were very good indeed, passed the ball generally very well and at times very quickly to get attacks moving. Nothing wrong with his game today overall but I see that ParkRoyalRanger still finds time to disrespect him…….not surprising really when you know he thinks that Dykes is a good player and it is everyone elses fault!!!!
Madsen is one of our best footballers in the Team, ‘head & shoulders’ above many and it is sad that many can’t see it.
If Madsen is as poor, as many on this MB appear to think (& believe), then why is he being picked to play by the new Manager/Coach/CEO this season and, also, picked by Cleventes at the back end of last season, who is a many MB poster hero,, ……why would he be selected to start by those two, the coaches, if he is so poor??? He has been selected to start around 10 times out of 12 of our last matches
Now, he is not my favorite player and I do not think that Madsen is any Ray Wilkins but he is nowhere near as bad as many think, a very long way from it – worth a place in the starting 11, currently for sure, even keeping Sam Field off the field for the whole game. And by the way, those who cheered him sarcastically today should be ashamed of themselves.
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| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 21:19 - Sep 1 with 3106 views | mart_Goblin |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 17:06 - Sep 1 by BrianMcCarthy |
Wilkins was 100% committed, drove his team-mates on relentlessly, on and off the pitch. He changed our club like very few others - Gregory, Marsh, Bowles, Venables - he's in that group.
Yes, he was immensely talented. Yes, he was short. Yes he was over thirty. But let's not get him wrong now: the QPR's Ray Wilkins was a Gent, but he was no dillitante. He was a dog.
He played with purpose, with drive, with a fierce and relentless determination. The man was a born winner.
And he did tackle, and he did head. And, yes, he did help out the defence.
He played the ref, he played the oppo. He bollocked his players. When we scored he was in their ear, he had an arm around them but he was in their ear. When they made a mistake he was in their ear, an arm around them but he was in their ear. They loved him, but he never let up.
That man drove the standards of our club for the best part of a decade.
Wilkins was one of QPR's greatest: not just because of his talent, but because of his raw hunger and raw determination. A winner. |
I’m biased but that is spot on Brian |  | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 22:37 - Sep 1 with 2967 views | charmr |
The only similarity I can acknowledge between Wilkins and Madsen is they both have vowels and consonants in their names. | | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 20:02 - Sep 2 with 2715 views | NorthLondonR |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 09:07 - Sep 1 by sdm1508 |
Wow. A fly on the wall as well as a c***. Someone can multitask. Also no 't' in that little C word. If your mind is gravitating towards other options, maybe you are subconsciously aware you are acting like one |
Would it, and should it be an aberration for a Johnny whatshisface rendition of 'Woman in a tabard' for our intricate ball-playing demand?
"Madsen in the middle ooo ah, ooo ah" (and so forth).
Or are we totally anti-Madsen?
*"demand was intentionally meant to be midfielder" [Post edited 2 Sep 20:03]
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| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 21:11 - Sep 2 with 2596 views | StreathamRanger |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 17:06 - Sep 1 by BrianMcCarthy |
Wilkins was 100% committed, drove his team-mates on relentlessly, on and off the pitch. He changed our club like very few others - Gregory, Marsh, Bowles, Venables - he's in that group.
Yes, he was immensely talented. Yes, he was short. Yes he was over thirty. But let's not get him wrong now: the QPR's Ray Wilkins was a Gent, but he was no dillitante. He was a dog.
He played with purpose, with drive, with a fierce and relentless determination. The man was a born winner.
And he did tackle, and he did head. And, yes, he did help out the defence.
He played the ref, he played the oppo. He bollocked his players. When we scored he was in their ear, he had an arm around them but he was in their ear. When they made a mistake he was in their ear, an arm around them but he was in their ear. They loved him, but he never let up.
That man drove the standards of our club for the best part of a decade.
Wilkins was one of QPR's greatest: not just because of his talent, but because of his raw hunger and raw determination. A winner. |
Super Ray came along around the time my dad started taking me to Loftus Road. I just assumed every team must have a player that good in the heart of their midfield. An absolute legend and a gentleman. | | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 21:19 - Sep 2 with 2579 views | CiderwithRsie |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 17:06 - Sep 1 by BrianMcCarthy |
Wilkins was 100% committed, drove his team-mates on relentlessly, on and off the pitch. He changed our club like very few others - Gregory, Marsh, Bowles, Venables - he's in that group.
Yes, he was immensely talented. Yes, he was short. Yes he was over thirty. But let's not get him wrong now: the QPR's Ray Wilkins was a Gent, but he was no dillitante. He was a dog.
He played with purpose, with drive, with a fierce and relentless determination. The man was a born winner.
And he did tackle, and he did head. And, yes, he did help out the defence.
He played the ref, he played the oppo. He bollocked his players. When we scored he was in their ear, he had an arm around them but he was in their ear. When they made a mistake he was in their ear, an arm around them but he was in their ear. They loved him, but he never let up.
That man drove the standards of our club for the best part of a decade.
Wilkins was one of QPR's greatest: not just because of his talent, but because of his raw hunger and raw determination. A winner. |
Exactly right, Brian, and IMO this sets out exactly what Madsen doesn't do.
Which does not mean Madsen is rubbish. As you say, Wilkins was transformational, players like that don't come along often. (If I recall correctly we got him on a free from Glasgow Rangers; amazing, really.) | | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 09:28 - Sep 3 with 2241 views | dutch |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 21:19 - Sep 2 by CiderwithRsie |
Exactly right, Brian, and IMO this sets out exactly what Madsen doesn't do.
Which does not mean Madsen is rubbish. As you say, Wilkins was transformational, players like that don't come along often. (If I recall correctly we got him on a free from Glasgow Rangers; amazing, really.) |
All true, but he played for Chelsea. | | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 09:56 - Sep 3 with 2141 views | terryb |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 11:47 - Sep 1 by francisbowles |
original version in Liverpool in the sixties, was St John scores from the rebound.
If you're not old enough to remember, Ian St John, Liverpool no 9. |
I remember it as a poster outside a church asking What will you do when the Lord comes?
Underneath was written Move St John to inside right.
I've no idea where they were going to put their top scorer, Roger Hunt! | | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 10:21 - Sep 3 with 2072 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 15:15 - Sep 1 by Pindarus |
I agree that Madsen has a touch of Ray Wilkins about him. Some of his passing is sublime. Wilkins didn't get stuck in as I recall not did he head the ball or help out the defence, but he had Barker and Holloway to do his running for him.. Clearly some people .have made up their minds that he is to be this season's scapegoat, but he has far more talent than fans favourites Dunne and Field. |
Having read your post Pinders, I feel compelled to ask: Did you see Wilkins play for QPR?
He was by far and away, one of the best midfielders I've seen in the B&W. Sublime, intelligent, influential, consistent, and made not just the individuals around him better, but collectively some of the best games we've seen and are likely to see came with him in the side. His performance up at Newcastle in October 1994 was the epitome of how one controls every aspect of the game.
He was brilliant for Chelsea, I'm not convinced United ever really got the best out of him, but we sure as hell did. Aside of going on a season to long, in 50 plus years following the Rangers, he's a match for anything in midfield before him and nothing has come remotely close to rival him since. While the focus of this thread is Madsen, I am afraid he merely gets in the queue to join a long cast of characters who've played in midfield for QPR that aren't worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Raymond, much less compared with. [Post edited 3 Sep 10:39]
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| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 10:58 - Sep 3 with 1965 views | dutch |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 10:21 - Sep 3 by PlanetHonneywood |
Having read your post Pinders, I feel compelled to ask: Did you see Wilkins play for QPR?
He was by far and away, one of the best midfielders I've seen in the B&W. Sublime, intelligent, influential, consistent, and made not just the individuals around him better, but collectively some of the best games we've seen and are likely to see came with him in the side. His performance up at Newcastle in October 1994 was the epitome of how one controls every aspect of the game.
He was brilliant for Chelsea, I'm not convinced United ever really got the best out of him, but we sure as hell did. Aside of going on a season to long, in 50 plus years following the Rangers, he's a match for anything in midfield before him and nothing has come remotely close to rival him since. While the focus of this thread is Madsen, I am afraid he merely gets in the queue to join a long cast of characters who've played in midfield for QPR that aren't worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Raymond, much less compared with. [Post edited 3 Sep 10:39]
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I reiterate, yes but he played for Chelsea. | | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 11:19 - Sep 3 with 1913 views | Pindarus |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 10:58 - Sep 3 by dutch |
I reiterate, yes but he played for Chelsea. |
Yes I saw Wilkins many many times.I only said Madsen had a touch of Wilkins with his vision and passing.
But at least Madsen hasn't spaffed 1.5 million on Hateley.😊 [Post edited 3 Sep 11:21]
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| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 11:20 - Sep 3 with 1910 views | KensalT |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 10:58 - Sep 3 by dutch |
I reiterate, yes but he played for Chelsea. |
Ray Wilkins didn't just play for Chelsea, he was Chelsea to his core.
So was Terry Venables.
Dave Sexton was arguably our most successful manager and he came to us from Chelsea.
Dave Webb who was at the heart of that '76 defence came to us from Chelsea.
Paul Furlong is still with us but he was previously at Chelsea - and we let him know what we thought about that when he joined us.
There has been a lot of overlap between us and Fulham Broadway FC.
Yes, there have been a few knobs along the way (Hughes, Bosingwa, etc). But some of the biggest names in our history worked for both clubs. And like it or not it has usually been us taking their sloppy seconds.
Off the top of my head the only player who started with us and went on to play for Chelsea was Clive Allen. And Clive seemed to be on some sort of mission to play for every club in London (Us, Arsenal, Palace, Spurs, Chelsea, West Ham, and Millwall)
EDIT -
If we stretch a point Raheem Sterling was with us before joining Chelsea late in his career. He never got to play for us, but he's not likely to be playing for them much either this season.
[Post edited 3 Sep 14:47]
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| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 11:27 - Sep 3 with 1877 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 17:06 - Sep 1 by BrianMcCarthy |
Wilkins was 100% committed, drove his team-mates on relentlessly, on and off the pitch. He changed our club like very few others - Gregory, Marsh, Bowles, Venables - he's in that group.
Yes, he was immensely talented. Yes, he was short. Yes he was over thirty. But let's not get him wrong now: the QPR's Ray Wilkins was a Gent, but he was no dillitante. He was a dog.
He played with purpose, with drive, with a fierce and relentless determination. The man was a born winner.
And he did tackle, and he did head. And, yes, he did help out the defence.
He played the ref, he played the oppo. He bollocked his players. When we scored he was in their ear, he had an arm around them but he was in their ear. When they made a mistake he was in their ear, an arm around them but he was in their ear. They loved him, but he never let up.
That man drove the standards of our club for the best part of a decade.
Wilkins was one of QPR's greatest: not just because of his talent, but because of his raw hunger and raw determination. A winner. |
I'm gonna say it quietly, but I'd actually argue he was our greatest player ever. Wilkins, not Madsen!
He didn't have moments in a game, like say a Bowles, he was the game. He controlled it. Quite simply the greatest ever Ranger.
I'll never forget we played Man Utd at home, I think we lost 3-2 in 94/95. They had Giggs, Cantona etc.
Wilkins was on a different level to everyone on the pitch, even at 35yo.
Regarding Madsen. I like a player that actually 'play' football so it is nice to see someone that can actually pass the bloody ball. I do think you need a couple of enforcers around him, which is why I think he played well in the 10 role at the end of last season.
We are not blessed with other passers in the CM area though, so I'd say he is probably one of the 1st names on the team sheet at the moment and Field has now been benched. | |
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| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 11:32 - Sep 3 with 1859 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 11:19 - Sep 3 by Pindarus |
Yes I saw Wilkins many many times.I only said Madsen had a touch of Wilkins with his vision and passing.
But at least Madsen hasn't spaffed 1.5 million on Hateley.😊 [Post edited 3 Sep 11:21]
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Yeah, true, he wasn't a good manager for the Rangers by any stretch of the imagination and arguably, one of our worst! | |
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| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 11:33 - Sep 3 with 1856 views | silverbirch |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 20:02 - Sep 2 by NorthLondonR |
Would it, and should it be an aberration for a Johnny whatshisface rendition of 'Woman in a tabard' for our intricate ball-playing demand?
"Madsen in the middle ooo ah, ooo ah" (and so forth).
Or are we totally anti-Madsen?
*"demand was intentionally meant to be midfielder" [Post edited 2 Sep 20:03]
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Don’t know that tune. I read it but just hear the smiths girlfriend in a coma.
“Madsen in the middle, I know, I know, we’re playing with ten again” | | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 13:22 - Sep 3 with 1720 views | KensalT |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 10:21 - Sep 3 by PlanetHonneywood |
Having read your post Pinders, I feel compelled to ask: Did you see Wilkins play for QPR?
He was by far and away, one of the best midfielders I've seen in the B&W. Sublime, intelligent, influential, consistent, and made not just the individuals around him better, but collectively some of the best games we've seen and are likely to see came with him in the side. His performance up at Newcastle in October 1994 was the epitome of how one controls every aspect of the game.
He was brilliant for Chelsea, I'm not convinced United ever really got the best out of him, but we sure as hell did. Aside of going on a season to long, in 50 plus years following the Rangers, he's a match for anything in midfield before him and nothing has come remotely close to rival him since. While the focus of this thread is Madsen, I am afraid he merely gets in the queue to join a long cast of characters who've played in midfield for QPR that aren't worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Raymond, much less compared with. [Post edited 3 Sep 10:39]
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Agree with all of that.
He was brilliant at Chelsea. Debut at 17 and Captain at 18. But Chelsea were fairly rank in the seventies and I think he was relegated at least once during his Chelsea playing career.
Ironic that we got more out of him than his boyhood team did.
Man United did not get the best out of him.
Hard to believe now but he was nicknamed "The Crab" during his time at Old Trafford because he was always passing sideways. | | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 13:38 - Sep 3 with 1659 views | dutch |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 11:27 - Sep 3 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
I'm gonna say it quietly, but I'd actually argue he was our greatest player ever. Wilkins, not Madsen!
He didn't have moments in a game, like say a Bowles, he was the game. He controlled it. Quite simply the greatest ever Ranger.
I'll never forget we played Man Utd at home, I think we lost 3-2 in 94/95. They had Giggs, Cantona etc.
Wilkins was on a different level to everyone on the pitch, even at 35yo.
Regarding Madsen. I like a player that actually 'play' football so it is nice to see someone that can actually pass the bloody ball. I do think you need a couple of enforcers around him, which is why I think he played well in the 10 role at the end of last season.
We are not blessed with other passers in the CM area though, so I'd say he is probably one of the 1st names on the team sheet at the moment and Field has now been benched. |
Greatest player No. No. Never, not close.
Gerry Francis better engine, more power, Don Masson, better passing, Rodney better everything. Adel more skill. Stanley, don't even consider it...
Plus the taint of the blues, both Chelsea and Rangers (Glasgow that is) always hung over him for some of us. Lovely chap, good chip. But he was Chelsea through and through. | | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 13:59 - Sep 3 with 1587 views | LongRanger |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 17:06 - Sep 1 by BrianMcCarthy |
Wilkins was 100% committed, drove his team-mates on relentlessly, on and off the pitch. He changed our club like very few others - Gregory, Marsh, Bowles, Venables - he's in that group.
Yes, he was immensely talented. Yes, he was short. Yes he was over thirty. But let's not get him wrong now: the QPR's Ray Wilkins was a Gent, but he was no dillitante. He was a dog.
He played with purpose, with drive, with a fierce and relentless determination. The man was a born winner.
And he did tackle, and he did head. And, yes, he did help out the defence.
He played the ref, he played the oppo. He bollocked his players. When we scored he was in their ear, he had an arm around them but he was in their ear. When they made a mistake he was in their ear, an arm around them but he was in their ear. They loved him, but he never let up.
That man drove the standards of our club for the best part of a decade.
Wilkins was one of QPR's greatest: not just because of his talent, but because of his raw hunger and raw determination. A winner. |
Great summary of Wilkins Brian, it took me back to those days when he dictated game after game, a true legend, regardless of his Chelsea connection.
Regards Madsen, i really hope he has a good 2nd season and think he may do, but how anyone can suggest what he's delivered to date is acceptable is bizarre. He's shown glimpses at best, and has a huge amount still to.prove.
But anyone making any comparisons to Wilkins is delusional. | | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 14:08 - Sep 3 with 1564 views | KensalT |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 13:38 - Sep 3 by dutch |
Greatest player No. No. Never, not close.
Gerry Francis better engine, more power, Don Masson, better passing, Rodney better everything. Adel more skill. Stanley, don't even consider it...
Plus the taint of the blues, both Chelsea and Rangers (Glasgow that is) always hung over him for some of us. Lovely chap, good chip. But he was Chelsea through and through. |
So you're not bothered that Gerry Francis grew up supporting Brentford?
"Personal life
Francis was a Brentford supporter as a youth and his father Roy was a professional at the club in the late 1940s and early 1950s."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Francis
Not having a dig - honest!
Just think our players and managers should be judged just on what they do for us.
Their personal belief, motivations, affiliations etc are their business.
I agree with you about Wilkins not being our best ever, simply because he was too far past his prime and we had to build the side around him. | | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 14:22 - Sep 3 with 1499 views | sevenhoop |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 22:37 - Sep 1 by charmr |
The only similarity I can acknowledge between Wilkins and Madsen is they both have vowels and consonants in their names. |
Very good and completely correct. To mention them in the same breath is sacrilege. Wilkins one of our all time greats |  | | |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 14:59 - Sep 3 with 1426 views | TheChef |
So after six pages, have we concluded if he's any good or not? |  |
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| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 15:09 - Sep 3 with 1394 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 14:59 - Sep 3 by TheChef |
So after six pages, have we concluded if he's any good or not? |
No. However, we've established whom he's to be compared with, Ray 'Butch' Wilkins.
Which is progress, of a fashion. | |
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| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 15:14 - Sep 3 with 1388 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 13:38 - Sep 3 by dutch |
Greatest player No. No. Never, not close.
Gerry Francis better engine, more power, Don Masson, better passing, Rodney better everything. Adel more skill. Stanley, don't even consider it...
Plus the taint of the blues, both Chelsea and Rangers (Glasgow that is) always hung over him for some of us. Lovely chap, good chip. But he was Chelsea through and through. |
Adel wasn't anywhere near Wilkins level. Never did it in the top league and was completely unprofessional, plus he was utterly indulged while here.
Not bothered about who players play for previously. I assume you don't particularly want JCS or Vale at the club then?! | |
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| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 15:49 - Sep 3 with 1322 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 15:14 - Sep 3 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
Adel wasn't anywhere near Wilkins level. Never did it in the top league and was completely unprofessional, plus he was utterly indulged while here.
Not bothered about who players play for previously. I assume you don't particularly want JCS or Vale at the club then?! |
Good post Holloway!
While AT's ability was beyond his years, the reason he never got right to the top, was between his ears. Shame really, but hey-ho. | |
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| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 16:00 - Sep 3 with 1278 views | Esox_Lucius |
| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 15:14 - Sep 3 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
Adel wasn't anywhere near Wilkins level. Never did it in the top league and was completely unprofessional, plus he was utterly indulged while here.
Not bothered about who players play for previously. I assume you don't particularly want JCS or Vale at the club then?! |
Wilkins was incapable of emulating most of the skills of Taarabt. No argument brooked. AT was the most technically gifted player we have ever signed. I spoke to Shaun Derry for over 20 minutes after the Charlton game and he admitted that would get angry about how AT was treated but after years having passed since then, says he was the best footballer he had seen and that he had "done things in training that were impossible". I have spoken to a couple of our players from that time who said similar about him. If he hadn't had the attitude we would never have seen him in the hoops. [Post edited 4 Sep 9:54]
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| CONTRARY to FIRM BELIEF on 16:23 - Sep 3 with 1227 views | mart_Goblin |
Not sure why we’re now comparing 2 completely different players?
To keep it very short , Adel did his talking with a football . The most gifted player I’ve seen in the hoops.
Ray was a brilliant player , captain , human . Ambassador , leader, influence , mentor ,
Ray was class of the pitch as well as on | | | |
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