| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:26 - Apr 30 with 1871 views | SimplyNico |
It all comes down to the contract. It's perfectly lawful to terminate in accordance with the terms of the contract. If the Club is relying on an express term (we do not know, for example, if there is a right to terminate by notice), then it doesn't matter that the reason they have terminated is flawed. MC can't argue in that case that there is a breach of the term implied into all employment contracts that neither party shall do anything without lawful and reasonable cause to undermine the relationship of trust and confidence, because its an implied term. Implied terms do not trump express terms. So the reason they have pulled the pin is not important. |  | |  |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:29 - Apr 30 with 1830 views | KensalT |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:23 - Apr 30 by Rsole |
I think it mostly depends on what reason you decided to terminate, Clive.
Could be that he breached a confidentiality clause for example.
Could also be for performance - or lack of.
Also depends on if he’s had prior warnings and a performance improvement plan etc.
There will probably be a whole load of other gotchas in the revised terms and conditions based on Marti nearly leaving before. The lawyers will have added them if he was getting better money and loyalty commitments (term of contract etc).
(All spoken based on a ‘friend’s’ current situation :-))
Hope that Marti had a decent UK employment lawyer look at the revisions properly because he won’t necessarily know our antiquated legal system and its peculiarities. |
Unlike most of us these days people working in football have the backing of powerful unions.
For managers it's the LMA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_Managers_Association
"The League Managers Association (LMA) is the trade union for Premier League, EFL and national team managers in English association football. The LMA awards the LMA Manager of the Year award annually." | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:31 - Apr 30 with 1791 views | LongRanger |
A total shambles, Nourry has clearly sold Ruben a story to get sign off on this gardening leave plan and within 24 hours its collapsed... Ruben may be light touch, but I'd be shocked if he's not hot footing into Nourry's office to either unleash or fire him, any sensible business owner would.
This fiasco is also another example of how poor we are at extracting new revenue streams from an easy opportunity....instead we'll be paying him off, its unbelievably poor management. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:31 - Apr 30 with 1789 views | SW_Ranger |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:18 - Apr 30 by Northernr |
You've now got a manager who did a perfectly good job for you on garden leave for being in for another job, you reckon you're trying to protect the compensation figure you'd be owed, and it turns out he's not even on the shortlist for the bloody job in the first place.
Even by our standards, this is special, special QPR behaviour.
I ask the same question I did in the piece last night - what indication are these people giving you, what faith are they inspiring, that they're fit and capable and experienced enough to run a bath, never mind a football club, never mind a recruitment operation for a dozen players and a manager.
Just look at the place. Look how we're projecting ourself this week. Look how we're handling this. |
I’m not sure that any of us can make a claim that Martí has done a ‘perfectly’ good job Clive. He’s made a lot of mistakes through this season with some very poor runs of results (as we all know, in difficult player circumstances). I will put it out there I am a Martí fan in the main.
I know football is nothing like the commercial world, but it is farcical that MC and CN are unable to do their best for the club over their own professional reputation and, more farcical, their personal egos. Many of us will have had difficult working relationships in the working environment but we are expected to make the best of it or take the option to resign. Where we are different most of us do not have contractual obligations to fulfill or accept the need for compensation.
Martí has been heard to say that he understood the financial restraints we were under, so not good enough to bitch about not having the players when he knows exactly where we stand as a club. You would also expect that he is professional enough to have done his homework and asked the questions before accepting the job. None of us has all the facts (hence 14 pages of opinions, itk and conjecture = no-one knows the truth yet).
Nourry has done himself no favours and equally must accept his share of the blame for the situation between him and the coach. He should be working at how he can make things work not throw his toys out of the pram along with Martí. Feels like both come across as immature, egotistical and naive guys.
All said we are the ones staring at the shit heap now. All I hope for now is that we come out of this best (whatever that means). Not confident, we are now in the mix of our league competitors looking for a new coach - we look way down the list of good deal for any manager of promise. [Post edited 30 Apr 15:56]
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:33 - Apr 30 with 1761 views | daveB |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:31 - Apr 30 by LongRanger |
A total shambles, Nourry has clearly sold Ruben a story to get sign off on this gardening leave plan and within 24 hours its collapsed... Ruben may be light touch, but I'd be shocked if he's not hot footing into Nourry's office to either unleash or fire him, any sensible business owner would.
This fiasco is also another example of how poor we are at extracting new revenue streams from an easy opportunity....instead we'll be paying him off, its unbelievably poor management. |
It would have been along the lines of he can tell other clubs what players are on, contract lengths etc and they can take advantage of us as the basis for doing this but when he doesn't get another job they just look stupid |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:35 - Apr 30 with 1739 views | LongRanger |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:33 - Apr 30 by daveB |
It would have been along the lines of he can tell other clubs what players are on, contract lengths etc and they can take advantage of us as the basis for doing this but when he doesn't get another job they just look stupid |
100% | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:47 - Apr 30 with 1631 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:05 - Apr 30 by lassel |
Of course he would’ve. Cifuentes is extremely ambitious and you ultimately only have to get one PL job and be sacked from it to be set for life financially for generations.
He didn’t leave Hammarby with his Swedish partner and Norwegian born kids to move to a London club with a crumbling stadium and half the attendances because he grew up with Ray Wilkins bedsheets. |
He did a fantastic job last season but to start touting himself around in the summer isn't a good look for me.
Modern managers seem in such a hurry to get a better opportunity. That's a lot to do with their limited shelf life but sometimes you need to walk before you can run. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:48 - Apr 30 with 1634 views | TheChef |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:06 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
If you’re approached by another company or Marti was approached by eg Sunderland then fine. But you don’t join somewhere and within 6 months, start approaching other companies / clubs, saying I might be interested. |
Yeah but you might do if you hate your boss. |  |
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:57 - Apr 30 with 1523 views | stevec |
Or it could just be bang out of order if Marti is touting himself about when under contract.
I’m not sure what else the club could have done under those circumstances, irrespective of whether West Brom want him or not. Personally I don’t want a manager in charge for any match who treats this club with such contempt.
He didn’t have to sign a long term contract but nevertheless that is exactly what he did |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:10 - Apr 30 with 1420 views | GaryHaddock |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:57 - Apr 30 by stevec |
Or it could just be bang out of order if Marti is touting himself about when under contract.
I’m not sure what else the club could have done under those circumstances, irrespective of whether West Brom want him or not. Personally I don’t want a manager in charge for any match who treats this club with such contempt.
He didn’t have to sign a long term contract but nevertheless that is exactly what he did |
Is it out of order to treat cntish bosses with contempt now? |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:13 - Apr 30 with 1394 views | JamesB1979 |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:10 - Apr 30 by GaryHaddock |
Is it out of order to treat cntish bosses with contempt now? |
He’s treating the club with contempt. It’s not all about the posh lad. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:17 - Apr 30 with 1350 views | bongo_king |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:31 - Apr 30 by LongRanger |
A total shambles, Nourry has clearly sold Ruben a story to get sign off on this gardening leave plan and within 24 hours its collapsed... Ruben may be light touch, but I'd be shocked if he's not hot footing into Nourry's office to either unleash or fire him, any sensible business owner would.
This fiasco is also another example of how poor we are at extracting new revenue streams from an easy opportunity....instead we'll be paying him off, its unbelievably poor management. |
On CN / Reuben, was thinking the same. Could be reading between the wrong lines but picking up from the various bits bounced about over the last week and 24hrs: Reuben stepped in to stop MC being fired by CN earlier in the season, and may or may not have had a go at CN after Burnley. So may be less that happy with this situation.
Problem is CN (apart from all the other crimes) may have snookered both himself and the whole club here. Even our owners surely know they can't overrule the CEO/DF, so can't step in to save MC if they are unhappy (would completely go against the idea of having our setup). But if not happy and think CN has really screwed this up, they may want to bin CN too. But to replace with who given the process to get him in? Indeed can they even be bothered to get on the merrigoround again?
There is part of me that fears this could quickly get even messier than it is. I actually hope I'm reading between the lines wrong... | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:22 - Apr 30 with 1311 views | GaryHaddock |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:13 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
He’s treating the club with contempt. It’s not all about the posh lad. |
Ok, let me re phrase. Is it out of order treating cntish employers with contempt now? | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:24 - Apr 30 with 1297 views | kensalriser |
Of course the owners can override the CEO. They can also dismiss him and any other executive or board member. . |  |
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:31 - Apr 30 with 1226 views | JamesB1979 |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:22 - Apr 30 by GaryHaddock |
Ok, let me re phrase. Is it out of order treating cntish employers with contempt now? |
Well if I hated my job and company that much, I wouldn’t sign an extension to my current contract. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:33 - Apr 30 with 1199 views | R_from_afar |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:21 - Apr 30 by daveB |
Thing is though as a football club we sell ourselves to players and managers by saying look at us come here we will develop you and then if you do well you can achieve your footballing dreams at a bigger and better club that we help you to reach. Look at Eze he played in this shithole he's now tearing it up in the prem, look theres Les Ferdinand he spent years at this dump and then got to win PFA player of the year and play for England
The aim isn't come here and be the best you can be win promotion, play in the top flight with QPR, this is your career high playing for us. it's do well and get to go somewhere decent so of course when someone comes in and does well they are going to be dropping their knickers to the flash bigger and better club that we promised them they could get if they came here |
Great post. I have long worried that this is how we promote ourselves to players and coaches.
I say worried because, pragmatic as this approach might be, it undermines the club and almost excuses a lack of commitment to the QPR cause.
If there was a proper, long term plan for the club and its infrastructure, with some real oomph behind it, we might be able to sell ourselves as a destination rather than a mere stepping stone.
I won't hold my breath.  |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:40 - Apr 30 with 1144 views | daveB |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:31 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
Well if I hated my job and company that much, I wouldn’t sign an extension to my current contract. |
I don't think it's a case of he hates his job. He was due an extension and pay rise if he kept us up and took it and his agent was looking for the next step up for him to take if he did well or if he needed another job, thats pretty much an agents job
We'll have plenty of agents trying to give us a new manager over the next few weeks | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:42 - Apr 30 with 1128 views | JamesB1979 |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:40 - Apr 30 by daveB |
I don't think it's a case of he hates his job. He was due an extension and pay rise if he kept us up and took it and his agent was looking for the next step up for him to take if he did well or if he needed another job, thats pretty much an agents job
We'll have plenty of agents trying to give us a new manager over the next few weeks |
But you would need to give green light to your agents to do that. What irritates me most is last summer. He was here 6 months and looking for something better. Are we that bad? Give us a year at least! | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:43 - Apr 30 with 1123 views | BklynRanger |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:21 - Apr 30 by daveB |
Thing is though as a football club we sell ourselves to players and managers by saying look at us come here we will develop you and then if you do well you can achieve your footballing dreams at a bigger and better club that we help you to reach. Look at Eze he played in this shithole he's now tearing it up in the prem, look theres Les Ferdinand he spent years at this dump and then got to win PFA player of the year and play for England
The aim isn't come here and be the best you can be win promotion, play in the top flight with QPR, this is your career high playing for us. it's do well and get to go somewhere decent so of course when someone comes in and does well they are going to be dropping their knickers to the flash bigger and better club that we promised them they could get if they came here |
Have been thinking about that same thing for a few months now (sometimes the penny drops slowly for me.)
When that concept was first raised (a few years ago maybe?) it sounded a bit like pragmatism, possibly realism. Maybe it would allow us to get a few players who we might not otherwise have got.
I've now come to think it's one of the elements that has caused successive squads to phone it in, drop out injured for long periods, look generally disinterested and any number of other issues we've seen. You can also say it's the way players are these days, no argument there, but that policy seems relevant. |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:49 - Apr 30 with 1061 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:43 - Apr 30 by Rsole |
I have no doubt and he’ll be like a pig in shit but there was some debate that Marti had some say in it too, Clive. |
Would any manager in his right mind go I to a season with one left back the club has been trying to flog all summer, no midfield and only two strikers?
They wouldn't and MC was only head coach.
This all kicked off in August/September with plenty of us on here calling Nourry out back then for the God awful squad he assembled.
I thought MC was an OK coach, but this mess of a season sits squarely with Nourry. It's a shame as I really like the stuff he is doing with the DS squad etc, but keep him away from the 1st team. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:52 - Apr 30 with 1014 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:31 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
Well if I hated my job and company that much, I wouldn’t sign an extension to my current contract. |
Really? You're in a job you love and have strived your whole life to have but working for a boss you detest... You're offered a pay rise to do the exact same job and you'd say no thank you? Seriously? |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:53 - Apr 30 with 999 views | JamesB1979 |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:52 - Apr 30 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Really? You're in a job you love and have strived your whole life to have but working for a boss you detest... You're offered a pay rise to do the exact same job and you'd say no thank you? Seriously? |
I was responding to question about if the company treated you with contempt not my boss. Why would I stick around in a job I hate? | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:53 - Apr 30 with 997 views | GaryHaddock |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:31 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
Well if I hated my job and company that much, I wouldn’t sign an extension to my current contract. |
You wouldn't take a pay rise for a job you are already doing regardless? Are you sure? | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:54 - Apr 30 with 986 views | GaryHaddock |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:53 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
I was responding to question about if the company treated you with contempt not my boss. Why would I stick around in a job I hate? |
'Why would I stick around in a job I hate?'
Do you get it now? | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:55 - Apr 30 with 971 views | TeddRanger |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 15:43 - Apr 30 by BklynRanger |
Have been thinking about that same thing for a few months now (sometimes the penny drops slowly for me.)
When that concept was first raised (a few years ago maybe?) it sounded a bit like pragmatism, possibly realism. Maybe it would allow us to get a few players who we might not otherwise have got.
I've now come to think it's one of the elements that has caused successive squads to phone it in, drop out injured for long periods, look generally disinterested and any number of other issues we've seen. You can also say it's the way players are these days, no argument there, but that policy seems relevant. |
Taking off our QPR focused spec for a moment- isn't that exactly the case for the vast majority of Championship clubs?
Whether Manager or player, it's "Come here, do well and we'll either get to the Prem together or your success will put you there" | | | |
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