| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 11:51 - Apr 30 with 2198 views | KensalT |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 11:18 - Apr 30 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Well I couldn't agree more with you there and have said the same in other threads.
Personally though I believe that commercial madness is the reality of the situation. So much of what Lassel has claimed has come to fruition and continues to do so. And the whole picture he's painted here stacks up. |
"Personally though I believe that commercial madness is the reality of the situation."
Then the lunatics really have taken over the asylum! |  | |  |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 11:54 - Apr 30 with 2144 views | KensalT |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 11:11 - Apr 30 by KensalT |
I have no beef with Lassel.
He contributes a lot here and many have great faith in him. But I don't have any inside contacts at QPR (or Hammarby) and can't verify anything he says. For that reason I take a lot of it with a pinch of salt.
Doesn't mean he's wrong. Just means I don't know.
I try to look at it objectively as an outsider.
And objectively, the idea that you would pay off a key employee just to go and work for someone else, and possibly a direct rival, is commercial madness. |
Just out of curiosity.
If I were to start a beef with Lassel is there any chance Norf would pay me off to go and post on another forum?
Nah, didn't think so.
But it was worth a try :-) | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 11:55 - Apr 30 with 2113 views | lassel |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 11:49 - Apr 30 by KensalT |
"The board is Ruben. The shareholders is Ruben."
From a company law point of view that's not correct.
Shareholders hold sway at General Meetings.
The default position for board meetings is decisions are made on a show of hands.
Technically the board can still outvote Ruben. So it's not just his decision.
(It's a slightly moot point because if the reports that Ruben does now hold 76% of the shares are true he can amend the constitution at a GM to give himself control at board meetings - something he couldn't do back in November when Marti was under pressure because reports at that time said he only owned 60% of the shares) [Post edited 30 Apr 13:44]
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Of course from a legal perspective, but from a day to day perspective it’s been Ruben’s hand on the tiller for a few years now. Reilly is apparently decently involved (I would be too as he’s only rich, not fck you rich and likely cant afford to write his investment off) but he’s not overruling Ruben on anything. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 11:55 - Apr 30 with 2113 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 11:54 - Apr 30 by KensalT |
Just out of curiosity.
If I were to start a beef with Lassel is there any chance Norf would pay me off to go and post on another forum?
Nah, didn't think so.
But it was worth a try :-) |
Oh I dunno... We could always have a whip round! |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:02 - Apr 30 with 2039 views | lassel |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 11:13 - Apr 30 by Ned_Kennedys |
A lot of us don’t believe it but a few seem incredulous and really upset it’s not accepted as gospel. |
I mean it’s the internet, anything and everything you read on the internet should be treated with an industrial quantity of salt.
That said, myself and Norf have been posting for 9 months now about what was going on and what was coming and it’s come to pass as we said it would. We could of course have been involved in some elaborate conspiracy between us to undermine the manager and club we support, that’s your right to decide upon.
I would just suggest to think to yourself why Norf would spend his free time following the club around at no doubt considerably expense, blow up his relationship with the club and the ability to interview managers and other club officials for LFW to in your scenario create a web of lies presumably for attention.
Sometimes the simple answer is the correct one. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:05 - Apr 30 with 2010 views | SW_Ranger |
“ If one of your more marketable employees has a buyout clause in their contract then it's mind boggling you would choose to tear that up and instead pay them off just so they can work for someone else.”
That’s the mad crazy batshit mental world of football finances mate.
The rule book doesn’t exist. It couldn’t happen anywhere else on such a regular basis.
Guaranteed to have the average fan wanting a padded cell!! | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:09 - Apr 30 with 1965 views | R_from_afar |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 06:11 - Apr 30 by Bluce_Ree |
When it comes to this club, don't ever expect anything good ever. |
I'm beginning to wonder if we might be, well, cursed.... 
Ah, QPR: It's a good thing we don't make gearboxes. If we did, there would be one forward gear and five reverse ones  . |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:21 - Apr 30 with 1842 views | JamesB1979 |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:02 - Apr 30 by lassel |
I mean it’s the internet, anything and everything you read on the internet should be treated with an industrial quantity of salt.
That said, myself and Norf have been posting for 9 months now about what was going on and what was coming and it’s come to pass as we said it would. We could of course have been involved in some elaborate conspiracy between us to undermine the manager and club we support, that’s your right to decide upon.
I would just suggest to think to yourself why Norf would spend his free time following the club around at no doubt considerably expense, blow up his relationship with the club and the ability to interview managers and other club officials for LFW to in your scenario create a web of lies presumably for attention.
Sometimes the simple answer is the correct one. |
What I think you’ve said it compensation was agreed and Marti was leaving. And that this was due to relationship breakdown. But what specifically were the issues? Yes we know about the medical guy. But what’s been happening that made it get so bad? That’s what I haven’t read or seen. | | | |
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:30 - Apr 30 with 1740 views | GaryHaddock |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:02 - Apr 30 by lassel |
I mean it’s the internet, anything and everything you read on the internet should be treated with an industrial quantity of salt.
That said, myself and Norf have been posting for 9 months now about what was going on and what was coming and it’s come to pass as we said it would. We could of course have been involved in some elaborate conspiracy between us to undermine the manager and club we support, that’s your right to decide upon.
I would just suggest to think to yourself why Norf would spend his free time following the club around at no doubt considerably expense, blow up his relationship with the club and the ability to interview managers and other club officials for LFW to in your scenario create a web of lies presumably for attention.
Sometimes the simple answer is the correct one. |
Never wrestle with pigs mate. |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:33 - Apr 30 with 1717 views | DannyPaddox |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:09 - Apr 30 by R_from_afar |
I'm beginning to wonder if we might be, well, cursed....
Ah, QPR: It's a good thing we don't make gearboxes. If we did, there would be one forward gear and five reverse ones . |
The gardening leave angle again leads me to only one conclusion - it’s the curse of the Blue Peter garden |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:37 - Apr 30 with 1675 views | BristolR |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 10:36 - Apr 30 by BrianMcCarthy |
"If I was Rueben I'd be sending Hoos and Nourry into the garden as well and starting again."
Agreed.
We're going to need a bigger garden. |
I think Les can help, he still has “access” to the Blue Peter garden |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:38 - Apr 30 with 1671 views | R_from_afar |
One thing I don't think we'll ever know is whether Marti would've had his representatives looking for other jobs anyway, regardless of the state of his relationship with Nourry.
There are just so many unknowns, but as usual, the one sure thing is that the latest crisis harms our beloved club and those who genuinely care about it, e.g. us.
On a more general note, with most owners of successful football clubs, their club is either a genuine business focus for them, or something in with which they are emotionally invested because they are long terms fans, or both.
With us, tragically, it's neither, with inevitable and unpleasant consequences  . | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:39 - Apr 30 with 1654 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:21 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
What I think you’ve said it compensation was agreed and Marti was leaving. And that this was due to relationship breakdown. But what specifically were the issues? Yes we know about the medical guy. But what’s been happening that made it get so bad? That’s what I haven’t read or seen. |
What do you expect the answer to be here James? I mean why do people get divorced? It's not always one, big, glaring reason. You keep noting two specific reasons yourself but surmising subjectively 'they're not enough'. Maybe there isn't one big reason, maybe there are 100 more of similar magnitude? Maybe they're the only two but Marti sees them as deal breakers.
It's easy to be flippant about those things now we're sat here with 53 points on the board but how did you think Cifuentes was feeling last summer and right up to November? He had no strikers of any worth to pick, plenty on the injury table, shipping goals from set pieces and we were bottom of the table. You find it hard to believe that in that environment Marti felt it consequential whether we could employ a set piece coach and that our Performance Director was only contactable via Zoom?
I'm sure they're not the only reasons and surely a huge part of the clash came down to personality and communication styles etc. but equally you can't dismiss the specifics you have been given just because they don't bother YOU personally. [Post edited 30 Apr 12:41]
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:40 - Apr 30 with 1629 views | kensalriser |
Is there any angle of view from which this doesn't look like an absolute clusterf*ck of idiocy and incompetence? |  |
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:42 - Apr 30 with 1586 views | ytt28 |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:40 - Apr 30 by kensalriser |
Is there any angle of view from which this doesn't look like an absolute clusterf*ck of idiocy and incompetence? |
No | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:43 - Apr 30 with 1573 views | JamesB1979 |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:39 - Apr 30 by Padulas_Shampoo |
What do you expect the answer to be here James? I mean why do people get divorced? It's not always one, big, glaring reason. You keep noting two specific reasons yourself but surmising subjectively 'they're not enough'. Maybe there isn't one big reason, maybe there are 100 more of similar magnitude? Maybe they're the only two but Marti sees them as deal breakers.
It's easy to be flippant about those things now we're sat here with 53 points on the board but how did you think Cifuentes was feeling last summer and right up to November? He had no strikers of any worth to pick, plenty on the injury table, shipping goals from set pieces and we were bottom of the table. You find it hard to believe that in that environment Marti felt it consequential whether we could employ a set piece coach and that our Performance Director was only contactable via Zoom?
I'm sure they're not the only reasons and surely a huge part of the clash came down to personality and communication styles etc. but equally you can't dismiss the specifics you have been given just because they don't bother YOU personally. [Post edited 30 Apr 12:41]
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Fair enough. But then we smash Leeds, go into the summer on a high and yet Marti is tarting himself out for whatever job he can get with another club. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:43 - Apr 30 with 1566 views | Rsole |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 07:24 - Apr 30 by Northernr |
“Until it’s resolved, Nourry will probably be dealing with all the OOCs, contact extensions, sales and retention of players.”
He’s doing that anyway mate. It’s his show. We’re at his mercy. |
I have no doubt and he’ll be like a pig in shit but there was some debate that Marti had some say in it too, Clive. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:46 - Apr 30 with 1519 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:30 - Apr 30 by GaryHaddock |
Never wrestle with pigs mate. |
🐑 |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:50 - Apr 30 with 1464 views | lassel |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:21 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
What I think you’ve said it compensation was agreed and Marti was leaving. And that this was due to relationship breakdown. But what specifically were the issues? Yes we know about the medical guy. But what’s been happening that made it get so bad? That’s what I haven’t read or seen. |
*personal opinion* I think the relationship stated off badly and got rapidly worse.
Without writing a novel, I don’t think he was happy at ultimately joining earlier than agreed, or what he found here in terms of changing room and youth team setup and I think the relationship was holed below the waterline once he tried to move on last summer. The lopsided recruitment that left him with an edict to play a certain way and a team that couldn’t do it created friction and Nourry being overruled by Ruben on sacking him certainly didn’t help matters.
I don’t personally think the Williams situation was that key, but for sure it would piss off anyone to have a string of injuries and the dude in charge of fitness calling in on Teams to tell you it’s not that bad.
Ultimately, ego from both sides. Cifuentes is extremely ambitious and has spent this career talking himself up at every opportunity and Nourry is pathological about loyalty and control. They were/are chalk and cheese and it could never last long term. I would also add that many of those who have met or worked with Nourry will tell you he is extremely insecure and overcompensates for that consciously or otherwise. Having Cifuentes be almost universally popular with the fans and players whilst having a poor relationship with him as his boss won’t have helped. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:50 - Apr 30 with 1465 views | BristolR |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:33 - Apr 30 by DannyPaddox |
The gardening leave angle again leads me to only one conclusion - it’s the curse of the Blue Peter garden |
Ha, beat me to it you bugger
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:52 - Apr 30 with 1440 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:43 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
Fair enough. But then we smash Leeds, go into the summer on a high and yet Marti is tarting himself out for whatever job he can get with another club. |
Seems accepted that Cifuentes was fluttering his eyelashes at other clubs about 6 months after QPR employed him.
Beale only waited 4 months to do the same so that’s an improvement I guess 👍 | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:53 - Apr 30 with 1430 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:43 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
Fair enough. But then we smash Leeds, go into the summer on a high and yet Marti is tarting himself out for whatever job he can get with another club. |
Do you think Danny Rohl's agent wasn't in the ear of multiple clubs last summer?
I think you're reading more into that being an outlier because of what's happened this week with WBA. I'd imagine it's happening all over the place with ascending managers (and players). It's modern football. At the very least his agents stand to profit from making that move happen.
Again to name check Hunter for putting it so well in multiple posts this week - A lot of those that are backing MC over Nourry here don't believe him to be a faultless saint. He's been looking after himself more than any of us would like. But I see that - to an extent- as partly his prerogative after achieving that unimaginable reclamation job of last year. If we're going to only employ people that would put QPR above their own interests the shortlist would likely be limited to Ian Holloway and Marc Bircham. We had one of those and bombed him out for Steve McLaren as he sweet talked our board behind his back. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:53 - Apr 30 with 1419 views | Rsole |
Gallen made some good points about the relationship issues:
Coach says to DoF - get me better players, these aren’t up to it.
DoF says to coach - do your job and coach them better.
How do you resolve that type relationship because I’m pretty sure it’s been like that for a while with some of the players we bought last year.
And if you get a yes man in as coach, you won’t even get the pushback on quality/suitability of players. | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:54 - Apr 30 with 1407 views | BristolR |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:40 - Apr 30 by kensalriser |
Is there any angle of view from which this doesn't look like an absolute clusterf*ck of idiocy and incompetence? |
Nope | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:57 - Apr 30 with 1364 views | SimplyNico |
For what it’s worth, a few comments on the situation.
MC is contracted to QPR through to the end of his notice period or the remainder of the fixed term of his contract (we don't know if there is a notice period; it could just be a fixed term employment contract (very common for managers), and, if the latter, we do not know what the duration of the fixed term is).
We do not know if MC gave notice (if there is a notice clause) or indicated he wanted to leave, or whether the Club told MC he was being relieved of duties/ placed on garden leave. What we can say with some certainty is that there must be a garden leave clause as it would be a breach of contract by QPR simply to remove his duties (this has long been clarified by the Court of Appeal). The underpinning of garden leave is a right for the employer to have exclusivity of service whether or not the employer chooses to make use of the same.
The speculation about no compensation being payable is just that. The position with release fee compensation from another club is purely contractual. Nobody but the parties (and their agents) to MC's employment contract will know what the position is and if/when it might be payable (payment would be from MC, but a new employer would underwrite the cost).
That said, if another club in the Champ wants to employ MC before the end of his notice period/fixed term, then, irrespective of what MC’s employment contract provides, they will have to negotiate with QPR and pay something. If they don't, and they try and employ MC, inevitably, they will be inducing a breach of a contract. An injunction would be a possible remedy if it is a Champ club, damages more likely in other leagues (there would be no need to injunct outside the Champ because clubs in other leagues would be unlikely to be competitive with QPR during the remainder of MC’s employment with QPR).
As regards clubs outside the Champ, what would be the measure of damages? That is difficult to assess - there would arguably be no direct financial loss to QPR because MC is not currently doing anything. Further, there would need to be an offset against the saving made in relation to his salary. So, outside the Champ, damages could be nominal.
However, with clubs in the same league, it is a trodden path – Palace did the same thing with Bruce. | | | |
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