| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:59 - Apr 30 with 2572 views | JamesB1979 |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:53 - Apr 30 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Do you think Danny Rohl's agent wasn't in the ear of multiple clubs last summer?
I think you're reading more into that being an outlier because of what's happened this week with WBA. I'd imagine it's happening all over the place with ascending managers (and players). It's modern football. At the very least his agents stand to profit from making that move happen.
Again to name check Hunter for putting it so well in multiple posts this week - A lot of those that are backing MC over Nourry here don't believe him to be a faultless saint. He's been looking after himself more than any of us would like. But I see that - to an extent- as partly his prerogative after achieving that unimaginable reclamation job of last year. If we're going to only employ people that would put QPR above their own interests the shortlist would likely be limited to Ian Holloway and Marc Bircham. We had one of those and bombed him out for Steve McLaren as he sweet talked our board behind his back. |
I don’t expect Bircham style loyalty. I’m just asking that they give us a good year or maybe 2 without fluttering their eyelashes. Also, if they’re approached then that’s fine but to actively go out looking in your first year? That doesn’t sit well with me. |  | |  |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:03 - Apr 30 with 2500 views | sparkey |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:59 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
I don’t expect Bircham style loyalty. I’m just asking that they give us a good year or maybe 2 without fluttering their eyelashes. Also, if they’re approached then that’s fine but to actively go out looking in your first year? That doesn’t sit well with me. |
It's football.
Every single player, manager looks at their possibilities.
Even in my job, if a company is willing to pay me 20% more, I am joining that company.
The issue is why was this leaked, almost 100% certain it was from the club as a response to the article last week... this has now meant his position is 'untenable' and we have snookered ourselves as it looks like W Brom don't even want him. A massive and unnecessary leap from the club (and probably Nourry).
Absolute f*cking shambles. Embarrassing. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:04 - Apr 30 with 2493 views | nadera78 |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:59 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
I don’t expect Bircham style loyalty. I’m just asking that they give us a good year or maybe 2 without fluttering their eyelashes. Also, if they’re approached then that’s fine but to actively go out looking in your first year? That doesn’t sit well with me. |
Every single person in the game is looking for their next move. Someone else posted some comments from Shaun Derry on the situation, well Derry himself is out of work and looking for a gig - hence the phrasing he used "it's a good club, they deserve better". Just a nudge nudge to the owners/CEO/fans/media that there's a coach out there with a connection to QPR who could be a shout for the job. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:05 - Apr 30 with 2481 views | lassel |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:38 - Apr 30 by R_from_afar |
One thing I don't think we'll ever know is whether Marti would've had his representatives looking for other jobs anyway, regardless of the state of his relationship with Nourry.
There are just so many unknowns, but as usual, the one sure thing is that the latest crisis harms our beloved club and those who genuinely care about it, e.g. us.
On a more general note, with most owners of successful football clubs, their club is either a genuine business focus for them, or something in with which they are emotionally invested because they are long terms fans, or both.
With us, tragically, it's neither, with inevitable and unpleasant consequences  . |
Of course he would’ve. Cifuentes is extremely ambitious and you ultimately only have to get one PL job and be sacked from it to be set for life financially for generations.
He didn’t leave Hammarby with his Swedish partner and Norwegian born kids to move to a London club with a crumbling stadium and half the attendances because he grew up with Ray Wilkins bedsheets. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:06 - Apr 30 with 2441 views | JamesB1979 |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:03 - Apr 30 by sparkey |
It's football.
Every single player, manager looks at their possibilities.
Even in my job, if a company is willing to pay me 20% more, I am joining that company.
The issue is why was this leaked, almost 100% certain it was from the club as a response to the article last week... this has now meant his position is 'untenable' and we have snookered ourselves as it looks like W Brom don't even want him. A massive and unnecessary leap from the club (and probably Nourry).
Absolute f*cking shambles. Embarrassing. |
If you’re approached by another company or Marti was approached by eg Sunderland then fine. But you don’t join somewhere and within 6 months, start approaching other companies / clubs, saying I might be interested. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:06 - Apr 30 with 2439 views | lassel |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:43 - Apr 30 by JamesB1979 |
Fair enough. But then we smash Leeds, go into the summer on a high and yet Marti is tarting himself out for whatever job he can get with another club. |
That Leeds result ended up causing a lot of the trouble. His agent was showing that match to clubs effectively saying ‘look at how we destroyed them with this bunch of useless cnts on the pitch, imagine what we could do with your squad’ | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:12 - Apr 30 with 2359 views | dm97 |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:06 - Apr 30 by lassel |
That Leeds result ended up causing a lot of the trouble. His agent was showing that match to clubs effectively saying ‘look at how we destroyed them with this bunch of useless cnts on the pitch, imagine what we could do with your squad’ |
Putting everything from the QPR perspective to one side - his reps haven’t done a great job of getting him another gig have they? Very public touting without much movement (Sunderland sounds like it was closest and even then not that strong?). And now he’s out on a limb hoping Norwich come in and are willing to pay something to appease Ruben and Nourry.
It’s a mess from the club, but it’s also pretty poor career management. Especially if what you say is true about an agreement being place anyway. I’d be looking for new reps! |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:13 - Apr 30 with 2337 views | SteveCookFanAccount |
I think Marti would likely have wanted to leave regardless of the issues in his relationship with Nourry. He hasn't spent three years at any previous club, consistently moving up in the footballing world. QPR aren't going up in the footballing world - therefore, he will move. Maybe the relationship with Nourry accelerated his departure. It has certainly made it play out in public in a worse manner. Either way, Marti has done a good job for the club since he came in. He's kept us in the Championship in two seasons where it could have gone the other way if we'd had other previous managers in charge.
There are many things that we can blame Nourry for (recruitment, Ben Williams, lack of transparency), but I think regardless of any relationship breakdown, even if Marti and Nourry were playing happy families, he would have gone this summer. The club is not in the financial position to push up the league table, and that doesn't align with his career aims. | | | |
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:18 - Apr 30 with 2275 views | Northernr |
You've now got a manager who did a perfectly good job for you on garden leave for being in for another job, you reckon you're trying to protect the compensation figure you'd be owed, and it turns out he's not even on the shortlist for the bloody job in the first place.
Even by our standards, this is special, special QPR behaviour.
I ask the same question I did in the piece last night - what indication are these people giving you, what faith are they inspiring, that they're fit and capable and experienced enough to run a bath, never mind a football club, never mind a recruitment operation for a dozen players and a manager.
Just look at the place. Look how we're projecting ourself this week. Look how we're handling this. |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:23 - Apr 30 with 2192 views | Jevlar |
Just got an email about the first season ticket loyalty window closing today.
Timing (most likely an automated email) couldn’t be funnier
Like I want to renew right now! [Post edited 30 Apr 13:27]
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:26 - Apr 30 with 2128 views | Logman |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:18 - Apr 30 by Northernr |
You've now got a manager who did a perfectly good job for you on garden leave for being in for another job, you reckon you're trying to protect the compensation figure you'd be owed, and it turns out he's not even on the shortlist for the bloody job in the first place.
Even by our standards, this is special, special QPR behaviour.
I ask the same question I did in the piece last night - what indication are these people giving you, what faith are they inspiring, that they're fit and capable and experienced enough to run a bath, never mind a football club, never mind a recruitment operation for a dozen players and a manager.
Just look at the place. Look how we're projecting ourself this week. Look how we're handling this. |
Indeed, WTF is going on ?
No entiendo
So we have put him on gardening leave for going for a job which he is not in the frame for ?
You couldn't make it up. F*cking clowns. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:28 - Apr 30 with 2106 views | wombat |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:04 - Apr 30 by nadera78 |
Every single person in the game is looking for their next move. Someone else posted some comments from Shaun Derry on the situation, well Derry himself is out of work and looking for a gig - hence the phrasing he used "it's a good club, they deserve better". Just a nudge nudge to the owners/CEO/fans/media that there's a coach out there with a connection to QPR who could be a shout for the job. |
same as the warburton come get me podcast earlier in the season. never has a man touted himself so opennly as he did in that , ps the fans used to like me hint hint ! |  |
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:34 - Apr 30 with 2013 views | Rangersw12 |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:28 - Apr 30 by wombat |
same as the warburton come get me podcast earlier in the season. never has a man touted himself so opennly as he did in that , ps the fans used to like me hint hint ! |
I would give him the DOF today .
We need an adult in charge | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:35 - Apr 30 with 2001 views | captainmycaptian |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:18 - Apr 30 by Northernr |
You've now got a manager who did a perfectly good job for you on garden leave for being in for another job, you reckon you're trying to protect the compensation figure you'd be owed, and it turns out he's not even on the shortlist for the bloody job in the first place.
Even by our standards, this is special, special QPR behaviour.
I ask the same question I did in the piece last night - what indication are these people giving you, what faith are they inspiring, that they're fit and capable and experienced enough to run a bath, never mind a football club, never mind a recruitment operation for a dozen players and a manager.
Just look at the place. Look how we're projecting ourself this week. Look how we're handling this. |
A few things
Is he in the running for the WB job?
If not why would one go mess your last job up before you leave ?
If he has no job can we please make friends again and get him back MC
Surely if this is just a Nourry hatchet job then thenCEO must go
Or Clive can you apply for the job of CEO you will get it [Post edited 30 Apr 13:36]
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:38 - Apr 30 with 1968 views | SimplyNico |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:18 - Apr 30 by Northernr |
You've now got a manager who did a perfectly good job for you on garden leave for being in for another job, you reckon you're trying to protect the compensation figure you'd be owed, and it turns out he's not even on the shortlist for the bloody job in the first place.
Even by our standards, this is special, special QPR behaviour.
I ask the same question I did in the piece last night - what indication are these people giving you, what faith are they inspiring, that they're fit and capable and experienced enough to run a bath, never mind a football club, never mind a recruitment operation for a dozen players and a manager.
Just look at the place. Look how we're projecting ourself this week. Look how we're handling this. |
On garden leave - in other words, paying him the full salary and benefits he would accrue under his contract until it comes to an end. And if he doesn't get another job during his garden leave, having to pay another coach as well. Each £ paid to MC during this period, as well as to the other coach, comes straight out of the P&S budget and is a £ less for spending on player recruitment. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:39 - Apr 30 with 1953 views | wombat |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:34 - Apr 30 by Rangersw12 |
I would give him the DOF today .
We need an adult in charge |
Can u imagine warburton and nourry decidng on which players to bring in ? that would be comedy gold | |
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:41 - Apr 30 with 1930 views | Logman |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:28 - Apr 30 by wombat |
same as the warburton come get me podcast earlier in the season. never has a man touted himself so opennly as he did in that , ps the fans used to like me hint hint ! |
Warburton would bring stability but I don't think we would progress with him. We need a young (European) manager who understands the way football is going. We need to get some of the names touted out of our heads. They wouldn't have the goalkeeper playing the ball out from outside the penalty area, a 6 ft 2 right back winning headers from goal kicks in the opposition half, three 5 ft 6 attacking midfielders getting past 6 ft defenders. These are the types of innovations we need to be looking at. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:51 - Apr 30 with 1829 views | baz_qpr |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:38 - Apr 30 by SimplyNico |
On garden leave - in other words, paying him the full salary and benefits he would accrue under his contract until it comes to an end. And if he doesn't get another job during his garden leave, having to pay another coach as well. Each £ paid to MC during this period, as well as to the other coach, comes straight out of the P&S budget and is a £ less for spending on player recruitment. |
So assuming I've read what you have said correctly (and presuming your an eminent QPR supporting KC specialising in sports) 
The position is that by putting him on Gardening leave he cannot get another championship job without QPR getting compensation, but he can get a prem job or a role in another league and the compensation will be sweet FA). However we have to pay him (can we employ another coach in the same role?) until the issue is resolved.
Typically what would be the pay off for a sacking, full contract worth anyway (in which case club has nothing to lose), 1/2 , 1/4 ? |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:55 - Apr 30 with 1782 views | Rsole |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:06 - Apr 30 by lassel |
That Leeds result ended up causing a lot of the trouble. His agent was showing that match to clubs effectively saying ‘look at how we destroyed them with this bunch of useless cnts on the pitch, imagine what we could do with your squad’ |
How dare you say the champions of Europe were a bunch of CUnits, Lassel ? Heresy.
Bloody trouble maker :-) |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:08 - Apr 30 with 1691 views | CFW |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:18 - Apr 30 by Northernr |
You've now got a manager who did a perfectly good job for you on garden leave for being in for another job, you reckon you're trying to protect the compensation figure you'd be owed, and it turns out he's not even on the shortlist for the bloody job in the first place.
Even by our standards, this is special, special QPR behaviour.
I ask the same question I did in the piece last night - what indication are these people giving you, what faith are they inspiring, that they're fit and capable and experienced enough to run a bath, never mind a football club, never mind a recruitment operation for a dozen players and a manager.
Just look at the place. Look how we're projecting ourself this week. Look how we're handling this. |
Having supported the Hoops for close on 60 years there have been many decisions that have left me wondering what is going on - I can forgive Tony F for spunking his and the Premier League bounty as he was only really trying to do his best and got his pants pulled down. I can forgive giving Redknapp the job, I can forgive giving Hughes the job, I get and understand being mugged off by boil face and although it is not a great advert fore the club - I really cannot forgive this complete shit show.
What must the players be thinking or do they even care? Are we missing something? Is he also a snake in the grass, one thing for sure this does not bode well for the future of much loved club. MB was a snake and that was nothing to do with the club - that shit show was on him, this is different, if the manager had a good working relationship with the board etc (or one person) leaving the club at this point would not even be in his head. It is going to be a very tough next few weeks/months. | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:12 - Apr 30 with 1641 views | Northernr |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 12:57 - Apr 30 by SimplyNico |
For what it’s worth, a few comments on the situation.
MC is contracted to QPR through to the end of his notice period or the remainder of the fixed term of his contract (we don't know if there is a notice period; it could just be a fixed term employment contract (very common for managers), and, if the latter, we do not know what the duration of the fixed term is).
We do not know if MC gave notice (if there is a notice clause) or indicated he wanted to leave, or whether the Club told MC he was being relieved of duties/ placed on garden leave. What we can say with some certainty is that there must be a garden leave clause as it would be a breach of contract by QPR simply to remove his duties (this has long been clarified by the Court of Appeal). The underpinning of garden leave is a right for the employer to have exclusivity of service whether or not the employer chooses to make use of the same.
The speculation about no compensation being payable is just that. The position with release fee compensation from another club is purely contractual. Nobody but the parties (and their agents) to MC's employment contract will know what the position is and if/when it might be payable (payment would be from MC, but a new employer would underwrite the cost).
That said, if another club in the Champ wants to employ MC before the end of his notice period/fixed term, then, irrespective of what MC’s employment contract provides, they will have to negotiate with QPR and pay something. If they don't, and they try and employ MC, inevitably, they will be inducing a breach of a contract. An injunction would be a possible remedy if it is a Champ club, damages more likely in other leagues (there would be no need to injunct outside the Champ because clubs in other leagues would be unlikely to be competitive with QPR during the remainder of MC’s employment with QPR).
As regards clubs outside the Champ, what would be the measure of damages? That is difficult to assess - there would arguably be no direct financial loss to QPR because MC is not currently doing anything. Further, there would need to be an offset against the saving made in relation to his salary. So, outside the Champ, damages could be nominal.
However, with clubs in the same league, it is a trodden path – Palace did the same thing with Bruce. |
If you've put somebody on garden leave for going for a job it turns out he's not even on the shortlist for, are you not leaving yourself somewhat open to him turning round and calling it constructive dismissal? | | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:14 - Apr 30 with 1614 views | Rsole |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:51 - Apr 30 by baz_qpr |
So assuming I've read what you have said correctly (and presuming your an eminent QPR supporting KC specialising in sports)
The position is that by putting him on Gardening leave he cannot get another championship job without QPR getting compensation, but he can get a prem job or a role in another league and the compensation will be sweet FA). However we have to pay him (can we employ another coach in the same role?) until the issue is resolved.
Typically what would be the pay off for a sacking, full contract worth anyway (in which case club has nothing to lose), 1/2 , 1/4 ? |
I guess the following, based on RW, not football contracts so it could be completely arse about tit:
1) Marti stays in the green grass and gets paid until the contract ends. Either monthly or in one lump sum to end it. Not allowed to speak to other clubs whilst employed but can do as soon as the contract is terminated. Once terminated, the comp clause is also terminated so they will keep him on ice for a while - probably.
2) Marti’s agents meantime can speak to anyone and find someone who will pay the release clause and that allows the contract to terminate with Marti then allowed to agree terms (most likely already approved by agents). Best option to finish it but who’s paying the comp ?
3) Whilst Marti’s contract is still valid - we can’t permanently replace him like for like - but we don’t know what the job title is in his contract or how long it’s for. We can use Kevin and Xavi as caretakers this weekend but after that I think they are done unless made permanent.
4) We want someone new (who also wants us) so desperately that we need to make them an offer and decide to terminate Marti because of 3).
There’s probably another 10 flavours of each of these but I think it covers most of what I know of UK RW employment law options.
No doubt a smart KC (as the club has on speed dial) could probably frig this into a better outcome but I’m not sure any of it is palatable right now and the last thing you want is legal people billing hours. Hardly ever helps matters when common sense could prevail.
We’re just going to be the clown show and will have plenty of miniature sized cars parked outside the ground this summer. | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:21 - Apr 30 with 1551 views | daveB |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 13:06 - Apr 30 by lassel |
That Leeds result ended up causing a lot of the trouble. His agent was showing that match to clubs effectively saying ‘look at how we destroyed them with this bunch of useless cnts on the pitch, imagine what we could do with your squad’ |
Thing is though as a football club we sell ourselves to players and managers by saying look at us come here we will develop you and then if you do well you can achieve your footballing dreams at a bigger and better club that we help you to reach. Look at Eze he played in this shithole he's now tearing it up in the prem, look theres Les Ferdinand he spent years at this dump and then got to win PFA player of the year and play for England
The aim isn't come here and be the best you can be win promotion, play in the top flight with QPR, this is your career high playing for us. it's do well and get to go somewhere decent so of course when someone comes in and does well they are going to be dropping their knickers to the flash bigger and better club that we promised them they could get if they came here |  | | |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:21 - Apr 30 with 1537 views | KensalT |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:12 - Apr 30 by Northernr |
If you've put somebody on garden leave for going for a job it turns out he's not even on the shortlist for, are you not leaving yourself somewhat open to him turning round and calling it constructive dismissal? |
Marti isn't eligible to claim constructive dismissal.
You have to be in a job for two years before you can claim constructive dismissal:
https://www.acas.org.uk/dismissals/constructive-dismissal
Making a constructive dismissal claim
You usually have the right to make a constructive dismissal claim to an employment tribunal if you:
are legally classed as an employee
have worked for your employer for 2 years
There are strict time limits for making a claim to an employment tribunal. In most cases, you have 3 months minus 1 day from either:
the last day of your notice period
the day you resigned, if you did not give your employer notice [Post edited 30 Apr 14:23]
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| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:23 - Apr 30 with 1490 views | Rsole |
| Cifuentes on gardening leave on 14:12 - Apr 30 by Northernr |
If you've put somebody on garden leave for going for a job it turns out he's not even on the shortlist for, are you not leaving yourself somewhat open to him turning round and calling it constructive dismissal? |
I think it mostly depends on what reason you decided to terminate, Clive.
Could be that he breached a confidentiality clause for example.
Could also be for performance - or lack of.
Also depends on if he’s had prior warnings and a performance improvement plan etc.
There will probably be a whole load of other gotchas in the revised terms and conditions based on Marti nearly leaving before. The lawyers will have added them if he was getting better money and loyalty commitments (term of contract etc).
(All spoken based on a ‘friend’s’ current situation :-))
Hope that Marti had a decent UK employment lawyer look at the revisions properly because he won’t necessarily know our antiquated legal system and its peculiarities. | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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