| Marti, stick or twist? 18:34 - Apr 18 with 66900 views | Gloucs_R |
I'm really hoping all of the rumours about Marti leaving at the end of the season are untrue.
Consistency is absolutely key for us.
I think he's doing a decent job, definitely had his challenges this year.
What is everyone else's view?
Gary O'Neill would be my alternative if he were to depart. But I would much rather he was here next season. |  |
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| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:25 - Apr 24 with 2726 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:18 - Apr 24 by Lasagna |
Thanks Ned, but I don’t mind, its human nature so no point worrying about it.
As humans evolved in tribes, it became a survival trait to not assess what the ‘right’, opinion was to have about something, but what opinion did most other people hold, and so what opinion would best protect my safety or in this case status within the group. They are literally chemically incapable of critically assessing this.
So only a small percentage of generally high testosterone people will actually genuinely analyse what they think, and then autists (hey!!) |
With all due respect, what a load of sanctimonious (and pretty offensive) twaddle. |  | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:28 - Apr 24 with 2694 views | Lasagna |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 13:57 - Apr 24 by KensalT |
Your assumptions about how Ben Williams works are probably correct. He probably is mostly analysing data rather than needing to be hands on with the players.
And to be honest that's how I assumed he was working.
But that doesn't mean it's how he should be working.
Markofthegrove has pointed out on this thread that both us and Brooklyn Nets have experienced a lot of injuries under Williams and that a lot of those are the supposedly preventable soft tissue injuries.
Maybe his minions aren't properly interpreting his instructions.
Maybe problems aren't being spotted soon enough or interventions not happening soon enough.
Maybe his staff don't have the authority to do anything without him signing off on it first.
Maybe a man with so many other commitments is impossible to get hold of when you need him.
Ultimately Williams is simultaneously working across several different countries and several different time zones.
How does he manage his time effectively and where do we sit in his overall priorities?
I think Marti is well within his rights to insist that such an important role be full-time and at the very least on site on a regular basis.
What's the point of investing in a state of the art training centre if your Director of Performance is phoning it in and rarely sets foot in the building!? |
Again I think balance is needed here. A storm in a tea cup.
Are the injuries really a big enough unsolvable issue that it is a resigning matter? Has that ever been seen before at any club? And with two games left in the season. If he does resign in this season, then I hope our independent journalists are hot on the case to find if that means the club receives less or no compensation if he were to sign for a new club post 1st July.
To emphasises my point I think that the fashionable nature of being Anti-Nourry means there has been no critical assessment of whether Cifuentes is about to do a Beale on us here. Only in his case without the compensation owed.
It should be kept in mind that last year Cifuentes had the benefit of having a squad with the best availability in the football league.
So after one bad year I don’t buy it as a valid excuse to suddenly throw a tantrum and quit when it seems reasonable to assume that efforts will be made to make next season more like the good work from last season is impossible and certainly not a resigning matter.
I am scepticval about Marti's motives here. He's an ambiotius man and we were only ever a stepping stone for him (a mututally beneficial one) and i hope when he does leacve he leaves on the right terms.
Chair signed a contract and said recently he didnt want to leave on a free after the trust the club pput into him and I hope Marti does the same when he leaves |  | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:37 - Apr 24 with 2604 views | wombat |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 13:23 - Apr 24 by Lasagna |
I think this post exemplifies how silly this thread is getting.
Ben Williams obviously isn’t sitting on a zoom call with Chair going, “rub your knee and tell me how it feels”.
What seems more likely is he is essentially monitoring a big spreadsheet. All the miles the players run in training and in a game, at what intensity will all be tracked.
So essentially Williams will be focused on the quantitative data’ and the qualitive side, the interpretation based side will be left to the extensive medical team that is based here in London.
Long time lurker on this board but it seems to me the fashionable opinion at the moment is to be anit-Nourry. My pop psychology assessment on why that is, is that Nourry’s biggest mistake as I see it since he’s been here is how he has treated the main independent journalists. As these have an outsized influence in shaping certainly the online mood music around the club. With Nourry restricting their access to the club and in WLS case losing their monopoly on early transfer news. WLS were also sore about Steve Gallen not getting the job.
So its not a surprise to me that the source of this was a WLS journalist. Its also understandable why so many fans seem to be willing to see it through only one side.
Looking for more balance I would think its healthy to be sceptical about Marti as well here.
Marti has left every club within two years. Seen it suggested that if he quits now, so within the current season. If he signs a contract then as a Free Agent 1st July then we get no payout. So if his agent has got Norwich or West Brom lined up but their budget post parachute payments being tight means they would happily take him if he created this charade now, quits and then is a free agent in July for them?
Marti signed a contract in September and all the Ben Williams stuff was known then so I don’t buy that as a reason for him quitting. Would see it as a snake move from Marti to tee up his next job. |
hi steve how u doing its been a while |  |
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| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:38 - Apr 24 with 2603 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:18 - Apr 24 by Lasagna |
Thanks Ned, but I don’t mind, its human nature so no point worrying about it.
As humans evolved in tribes, it became a survival trait to not assess what the ‘right’, opinion was to have about something, but what opinion did most other people hold, and so what opinion would best protect my safety or in this case status within the group. They are literally chemically incapable of critically assessing this.
So only a small percentage of generally high testosterone people will actually genuinely analyse what they think, and then autists (hey!!) |
Pathetic.
2023/24 - we don't have many injuries.
2024/25 - we get lots of injuries.
But the reason for that is nothing to do with the guy that is accountable with keeping our players fit going part time, moving to a different continent and taking other jobs with other teams in other sports? And the reason I think it might be is because I don't have enough testosterone?
I'm far more comfortable with the 'group think' than this absolute nonsense if they're my options. |  | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:45 - Apr 24 with 2545 views | Northernr |
Always nice to see some old faces reappearing. |  | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:47 - Apr 24 with 2507 views | aston_hoop |
Whatever happened to 'Steve' from the other week? |  |
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| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:52 - Apr 24 with 2455 views | CroydonCaptJack |
If a new poster disagrees with the consensus he can't be genuine surely?
Do we really just want an echo chamber here ? |  |
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| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:53 - Apr 24 with 2452 views | wombat |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:28 - Apr 24 by Lasagna |
Again I think balance is needed here. A storm in a tea cup.
Are the injuries really a big enough unsolvable issue that it is a resigning matter? Has that ever been seen before at any club? And with two games left in the season. If he does resign in this season, then I hope our independent journalists are hot on the case to find if that means the club receives less or no compensation if he were to sign for a new club post 1st July.
To emphasises my point I think that the fashionable nature of being Anti-Nourry means there has been no critical assessment of whether Cifuentes is about to do a Beale on us here. Only in his case without the compensation owed.
It should be kept in mind that last year Cifuentes had the benefit of having a squad with the best availability in the football league.
So after one bad year I don’t buy it as a valid excuse to suddenly throw a tantrum and quit when it seems reasonable to assume that efforts will be made to make next season more like the good work from last season is impossible and certainly not a resigning matter.
I am scepticval about Marti's motives here. He's an ambiotius man and we were only ever a stepping stone for him (a mututally beneficial one) and i hope when he does leacve he leaves on the right terms.
Chair signed a contract and said recently he didnt want to leave on a free after the trust the club pput into him and I hope Marti does the same when he leaves |
quick question ,
When not if marti does leave ,in all likelihood in the next few weeks, which spin will the club put on it ?
will we go the tried and trusted route of announcing say satio and maybe another player has signed first ?
maybe some amazing news on the ground development , which will be starting as soon as the club remove a colony of newts rarely seen in the uk since the last ice age so bare with us on that one.
or the old club fav of and now we would like to announce an old club friend as manager , Gary oneil Warburton , usual suspects ? maybe even moving paul forlong into the hot seat , is that hangmans noose?
never before have i looked forward to how the club once again decide how they think they can hoodwink the poor fans all over again only to have change again in jan when its gone fully pete tong again with this years fans favouite manager .
You mention the club was always a stepping stone for marti and it was a concern that before he joined us he did leave clubs after two years , if the club wasnt concerned by that why did they appoint him in the first place let alone extend his contract last summer.
for anyone hiring somebody a cv which shows somebody is a regular mover from job to job 18 months 2 years is usually a red flag dosnt seem the case this time or did the board think they could change that and he would stay longer . [Post edited 24 Apr 15:05]
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| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:57 - Apr 24 with 2407 views | GaryHaddock |
Colin Robinson vibes. |  | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:57 - Apr 24 with 2409 views | daveB |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 13:23 - Apr 24 by Lasagna |
I think this post exemplifies how silly this thread is getting.
Ben Williams obviously isn’t sitting on a zoom call with Chair going, “rub your knee and tell me how it feels”.
What seems more likely is he is essentially monitoring a big spreadsheet. All the miles the players run in training and in a game, at what intensity will all be tracked.
So essentially Williams will be focused on the quantitative data’ and the qualitive side, the interpretation based side will be left to the extensive medical team that is based here in London.
Long time lurker on this board but it seems to me the fashionable opinion at the moment is to be anit-Nourry. My pop psychology assessment on why that is, is that Nourry’s biggest mistake as I see it since he’s been here is how he has treated the main independent journalists. As these have an outsized influence in shaping certainly the online mood music around the club. With Nourry restricting their access to the club and in WLS case losing their monopoly on early transfer news. WLS were also sore about Steve Gallen not getting the job.
So its not a surprise to me that the source of this was a WLS journalist. Its also understandable why so many fans seem to be willing to see it through only one side.
Looking for more balance I would think its healthy to be sceptical about Marti as well here.
Marti has left every club within two years. Seen it suggested that if he quits now, so within the current season. If he signs a contract then as a Free Agent 1st July then we get no payout. So if his agent has got Norwich or West Brom lined up but their budget post parachute payments being tight means they would happily take him if he created this charade now, quits and then is a free agent in July for them?
Marti signed a contract in September and all the Ben Williams stuff was known then so I don’t buy that as a reason for him quitting. Would see it as a snake move from Marti to tee up his next job. |
It's not about being Anti Nourry, I just think it's a farce to have a situation where you hire a head of performance and he works part time from a different country in a season where we have struggled badly with injuries.
I don't doubt he is looking at data and spreadsheets and working for us but it's mad, would any other club do something similar
Not having that about WLS sport either, Dave Mc was getting transfer scoops on QPR when Nourry was still in nappies so I don't buy it has anything to do with that, Dave moved away last year and has said multiple times they have had to cut back on QPR news, now they are in a place they can start doing it again they still get stick, bit of a no win
Should also say Ian who broke the story is a freelance journalist, has been for years rather than only working for WLS, he's close to QPR and was at the press confrence this all comes from so of course he breaks the story, thats his job |  | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:00 - Apr 24 with 2384 views | daveB |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 13:59 - Apr 24 by GaryBannister86 |
Maybe, but sometimes the majority opinion....is just the majority opinion? And that is OK, isn't it?
I have no idea if Lasagna is a club employee, but I am still prepared to read what he / she says. I actually agree about WLS having a bias or agenda a little more than they should sometimes - and I do agree that this can purely be down to how good access they get. In the long-distant past I have taken Dave Mc to task for anti-Gerry stuff which I personally thought was down more to their own relationship than independent assessment of his performance at QPR. I also don't agree with incessant fawning over the Gallens or Holloway, but on the flip side I think Dave Mc is brilliant, by far the most in the know journo about QPR and not everything he / they say has to be agreed?
However, I and many others on here surely, are able to make their own minds up without being simply influenced by Clive or WLS or ITK posts. I respect lots of views, but I will still come up with my own?
Group Speak is unfair, in my opinion. |
Dave Mc and Ian never fawned over Holloway, christ they used to slaughter him, had many an argument on the QPR list with Ian over Holloway | | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:05 - Apr 24 with 2333 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:00 - Apr 24 by daveB |
Dave Mc and Ian never fawned over Holloway, christ they used to slaughter him, had many an argument on the QPR list with Ian over Holloway |
Sorry - yes you are right, I meant I don't agree with the majority here over Holloway, not that Dave Mc fawned over Holloway. I was with Dave Mc there! | | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:08 - Apr 24 with 2290 views | RangersDave |
Serious question, honestly put.....
I've noted this season that some on here have comented that 'Marti has got that wrong' when it comes to the team selection (yes i know we had injuries), but that the team selection, or substitutions have been wrong or innefective.
Do we think, taking into the overall 'round' of things that all in all, is he doing a good job, or not?
I dont see enough live to come to a conclusion, i'm afraid. |  |
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| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:11 - Apr 24 with 2263 views | Andybrat |
Just listened to Illias podcast and WLS podcast with Desouza ( not sure how u spell his name). Pretty good messages from both, especially our playing star, methinks so maybe all is relatively well in Heston. Ever the optimist. | | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:17 - Apr 24 with 2191 views | daveB |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:05 - Apr 24 by GaryBannister86 |
Sorry - yes you are right, I meant I don't agree with the majority here over Holloway, not that Dave Mc fawned over Holloway. I was with Dave Mc there! |
What!! right thats it, Leave my Holloway alone
school playground at lunch for fisty cuffs | | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:24 - Apr 24 with 2109 views | daveB |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:08 - Apr 24 by RangersDave |
Serious question, honestly put.....
I've noted this season that some on here have comented that 'Marti has got that wrong' when it comes to the team selection (yes i know we had injuries), but that the team selection, or substitutions have been wrong or innefective.
Do we think, taking into the overall 'round' of things that all in all, is he doing a good job, or not?
I dont see enough live to come to a conclusion, i'm afraid. |
I think thats a good point and should be said I don't think Marti is innocent in all this and the ideal outcome would be heads banged together, Nourry acknowledges his mistakes and looks to rectify them and we all work together to get better next season.
Marti isn't daft, the timing of what he said at the weekend could be seen as phase 1 of his exit plan or could be seen as a cry for help in wanting to stay but it's got his name out there at a time where a lot of jobs are opening up. He'll certainly have options now
I imagine for Nourry now the ideal is that a club comes in for Marti and he can spin it as another Mick Beale or just one of those things rather than if he were to walk or be sacked
I do think every manager gets the team wrong from time to time, can always see what he is trying to do but times where it looked like it wouldn't work before the game and it doesn't. That will all be no different whoever is in charge, even Pep makes some mental team selections from time to time | | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:24 - Apr 24 with 2105 views | KensalT |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:28 - Apr 24 by Lasagna |
Again I think balance is needed here. A storm in a tea cup.
Are the injuries really a big enough unsolvable issue that it is a resigning matter? Has that ever been seen before at any club? And with two games left in the season. If he does resign in this season, then I hope our independent journalists are hot on the case to find if that means the club receives less or no compensation if he were to sign for a new club post 1st July.
To emphasises my point I think that the fashionable nature of being Anti-Nourry means there has been no critical assessment of whether Cifuentes is about to do a Beale on us here. Only in his case without the compensation owed.
It should be kept in mind that last year Cifuentes had the benefit of having a squad with the best availability in the football league.
So after one bad year I don’t buy it as a valid excuse to suddenly throw a tantrum and quit when it seems reasonable to assume that efforts will be made to make next season more like the good work from last season is impossible and certainly not a resigning matter.
I am scepticval about Marti's motives here. He's an ambiotius man and we were only ever a stepping stone for him (a mututally beneficial one) and i hope when he does leacve he leaves on the right terms.
Chair signed a contract and said recently he didnt want to leave on a free after the trust the club pput into him and I hope Marti does the same when he leaves |
Thank you for responding.
I don't agree with your reading of Marti's motives (and I don't know him and I'm not ITK), but I don't want to muddy the waters so lets stick to Ben Williams.
You ask if his performance is a resigning issue? Leaving aside everything else, if you look at his LinkedIn page (see below) he says his role with us is full-time and hybrid. Unless that changed somewhere along the line he hasn't been giving that level of service.
Looking at the injuries data I think it's clear that two of his major clients appear to have had a poor return for his services this season.
In particular both us and Brooklyn Nets have had a lot of soft tissue injuries which the sports science academics are adamant are wholly preventable.
I think it is fair to say that having players fit and available to play is BW's remit and it is entirely fair that he should explain himself. (at least with regard to QPR).
I also think it is entirely fair that the club reviews his working arrangements and gives serious consideration to whether Williams is devoting sufficient time to his QPR responsibilities.
The onus should be on Williams to justify why he continue to live in Dubai and continue to service a global client base.
In the circumstances the owners might also ask Hoos and/or Nourry why they have allowed this situation to develop when he appears to have been appointed on a full time basis.
If Williams can't or won't give satisfactory answers to those questions then it probably is time to shake hands and move on.
Apropos of nothing. If you look at BW's LinkedIn he doesn't mention Brooklyn Nets (so might not have updated for a while). But it does say his role with QPR is full-time and hybrid, which to my mind means he should be devoting all his time to us and working onsite on a regular basis!
And strangely he says nothing about his QPR responsibilities but gives plenty of details about his previous roles!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-williams-2248ba160/details/experience/
Experience
QUEENS PARK RANGERS FOOTBALL & ATHLETIC CLUB,LIMITED,(THE) logo
Director of Performance
Director of Performance
QUEENS PARK RANGERS FOOTBALL & ATHLETIC CLUB,LIMITED,(THE) · Full-timeQUEENS PARK RANGERS FOOTBALL & ATHLETIC CLUB,LIMITED,(THE) · Full-time
Aug 2023 - Present · 1 yr 9 mosAug 2023 to Present · 1 yr 9 mos
London, England, United Kingdom · Hybrid | | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:28 - Apr 24 with 2074 views | FDC |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:45 - Apr 24 by Northernr |
Always nice to see some old faces reappearing. |
Is this Sheffield Hoop, bored of running imitation accounts of LFWers on Bluesky, back to join us on here per chance? |  | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:28 - Apr 24 with 2068 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:17 - Apr 24 by daveB |
What!! right thats it, Leave my Holloway alone
school playground at lunch for fisty cuffs |
You only rate Holloway because others do Dave :-)
Seriously, never got the guy. Terrible player in a great side, irritating manager who couldn't even win League 1 as champions, with the biggest budget as Dave Mc would say ha ha ha. | | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:43 - Apr 24 with 1941 views | dmm |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:28 - Apr 24 by FDC |
Is this Sheffield Hoop, bored of running imitation accounts of LFWers on Bluesky, back to join us on here per chance? |
Funny, that crossed my mind too... |  | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:45 - Apr 24 with 1929 views | TheChef |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:28 - Apr 24 by FDC |
Is this Sheffield Hoop, bored of running imitation accounts of LFWers on Bluesky, back to join us on here per chance? |
Ooooh, I've missed him!  |  |
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| Marti, stick or twist? on 16:01 - Apr 24 with 1789 views | Rangersw12 |
First of all I will be absolutely gutted if he leaves but if he is going to leave I just hope it's done quickly . I won't be able to handle a summer of rumour and counter rumour
This is a massive summer ( again ) and we need to have everything in place by the time the players return for pre season
My two pence worth , Williams & Nourry need be sacked and we need to get a DOF who has actually done the job before. | | | |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 16:15 - Apr 24 with 1664 views | connell10 |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 16:01 - Apr 24 by Rangersw12 |
First of all I will be absolutely gutted if he leaves but if he is going to leave I just hope it's done quickly . I won't be able to handle a summer of rumour and counter rumour
This is a massive summer ( again ) and we need to have everything in place by the time the players return for pre season
My two pence worth , Williams & Nourry need be sacked and we need to get a DOF who has actually done the job before. |
I agree, Nourryvirus is a tit! [Post edited 24 Apr 17:02]
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| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Marti, stick or twist? on 16:17 - Apr 24 with 1644 views | Dorse |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 14:57 - Apr 24 by GaryHaddock |
Colin Robinson vibes. |
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| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Marti, stick or twist? on 17:13 - Apr 24 with 1351 views | rbee |
| Marti, stick or twist? on 15:24 - Apr 24 by KensalT |
Thank you for responding.
I don't agree with your reading of Marti's motives (and I don't know him and I'm not ITK), but I don't want to muddy the waters so lets stick to Ben Williams.
You ask if his performance is a resigning issue? Leaving aside everything else, if you look at his LinkedIn page (see below) he says his role with us is full-time and hybrid. Unless that changed somewhere along the line he hasn't been giving that level of service.
Looking at the injuries data I think it's clear that two of his major clients appear to have had a poor return for his services this season.
In particular both us and Brooklyn Nets have had a lot of soft tissue injuries which the sports science academics are adamant are wholly preventable.
I think it is fair to say that having players fit and available to play is BW's remit and it is entirely fair that he should explain himself. (at least with regard to QPR).
I also think it is entirely fair that the club reviews his working arrangements and gives serious consideration to whether Williams is devoting sufficient time to his QPR responsibilities.
The onus should be on Williams to justify why he continue to live in Dubai and continue to service a global client base.
In the circumstances the owners might also ask Hoos and/or Nourry why they have allowed this situation to develop when he appears to have been appointed on a full time basis.
If Williams can't or won't give satisfactory answers to those questions then it probably is time to shake hands and move on.
Apropos of nothing. If you look at BW's LinkedIn he doesn't mention Brooklyn Nets (so might not have updated for a while). But it does say his role with QPR is full-time and hybrid, which to my mind means he should be devoting all his time to us and working onsite on a regular basis!
And strangely he says nothing about his QPR responsibilities but gives plenty of details about his previous roles!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-williams-2248ba160/details/experience/
Experience
QUEENS PARK RANGERS FOOTBALL & ATHLETIC CLUB,LIMITED,(THE) logo
Director of Performance
Director of Performance
QUEENS PARK RANGERS FOOTBALL & ATHLETIC CLUB,LIMITED,(THE) · Full-timeQUEENS PARK RANGERS FOOTBALL & ATHLETIC CLUB,LIMITED,(THE) · Full-time
Aug 2023 - Present · 1 yr 9 mosAug 2023 to Present · 1 yr 9 mos
London, England, United Kingdom · Hybrid |
Whilst not jumping for joy when the news broke about his Brooklyn Nets job and being based in Dubai, I wasn't too bothered about the Ben Williams situation given that our injury record last season was so good. I assumed that our Director of Performance was a man operating at the highest of levels, highly respected and therefore his services wanted by other sports organisations. I also assumed that from his Dubai base Ben would spend at least a week each month at our training ground which doesn't appear to be the case.
This season has been an injury disaster and as many others have said on here it can't be a coincidence that our injury record is excellent with Ben being present at the training ground and then abysmal when he is not around. In Ben's absence players such as Frey and Varane are picking up injuries whilst not playing in football matches.
This is a situation that cannot continue. Wasn't it mooted that Ben's based in Dubai situation was temporary? I appreciate that it could be a 'how long is a piece of string' question but surely the club would have a clue as to how long the based in Dubai situation is likely to last? If there is no indication of it ending this year then surely it is best for us to replace Ben and move on. |  | | |
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